I am so excited to share this podcast with you. ⭐️ Meet the amazing TARA STILES!⭐️
Tara Stiles is the co-founder of Strala Yoga, best-selling author, and well-being expert. Tara revolutionized yoga for millions, transforming a practice so often seen as dogmatic, and guru-based, into an everyday movement that supports ease and well-being.
Strala Yoga is practiced in more than 100 countries, thousands of Guides lead Strala classes around the globe, and Tara shares yoga with thousands of people on the Strala Yoga app. She has been profiled by The New York Times, Times of India, The Times (UK), and featured in most major national and international magazines.
Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. So happy you are here. My goal with this channel is to bring inspirational speakers to the mic in the field of yoga, massage bodywork and beyond. Follow us @nativeyoga, and check us out at nativeyogacenter.com. All right, let’s begin.
Well, yeah, I’m so excited to have Tara Stiles joining me today on the podcast. Tara, thank you so much. How are you?
Tara Stiles
I’m doing good. Thanks so much for having me. I’m excited to chat with you too. Thank you.
Todd McLaughlin
So for those of you that listened to the podcast with Yulady Saluti, she spoke so highly of Tara, that it got me excited to reach out to you Tara and get a chance to speak with you. So thank you for being so gracious in accepting my invitation. I know you have a busy schedule. Are you in New York City currently?
Tara Stiles
Oh, I’m not actually I just got back from Singapore yesterday. But we’re in Illinois. We got this place in Illinois a couple of years ago to be close to family and kind of support everyone here. So we’ll be going to New York in the fall for Daisy’s school. But we’ve been here for a couple of years, kind of based out of hometown America. So that’s been really pretty sweet. Actually.
Todd McLaughlin
Wonderful. Not in Chicago? It sounds more like in a rural setting.
Tara Stiles
Yeah, you got it because you know America. A lot of friends in Europe are like, Oh, Illinois, Chicago. But yeah, we’re pretty far south. So the weather is actually a little bit warmer here than in Chicago. But yeah, all my family’s here. They’re farmers and hanging around the place. So it’s been nice to catch up with everybody and just be together.
Todd McLaughlin
That’s so cool. Is that the town that you grew up in?
Tara Stiles
I didn’t. I grew up a little bit closer to Chicago, but everybody is from here. So my parents got a place down here a few years ago. So everybody’s kind of in the same location. So it’s nice to just be around for sure.
Todd McLaughlin
I hear you, that’s cool. And especially having farm life is pretty amazing. Do they have like a big farm? Are they more like cottage farmers? Do they have chickens and veggies? Are they more of like big time farmers?
Tara Stiles
I mean, I don’t know how big time but kind of all of it. My aunts and all my relatives have gardens and things like that. So come summertime and late fall, you’ve got everything and they can at all for the winter.
Todd McLaughlin
That’s awesome!
Tara Stiles
Yeah, they do the veggies for the personal consuming. And then they do corn and wheat and things like that. I remember a few years ago asking my cousin who’s a few years older than me, she does a lot of the big kind of combining and stuff, and we get to ride along. But I asked her where the corn goes, you know, after reading Michael Pollan’s book and all of these kinds of things. I know there’s a lot of the problems with America, but they found a way to sell their corn for hard plastics and windshields. So I thought that was kind of cool. Just everybody’s trying to do better.
Todd McLaughlin
Yeah, I hear you, that’s amazing. Are you an organic gardener? Or a do you have time for a garden? Or do you just get to benefit from your family’s efforts?
Tara Stiles
To be honest, I would love to. But you know, we’re not here in the summers all the time. I’d love to actually do a greenhouse. I’ve seen that you can kind of buy these pop up greenhouses. They’re becoming more easy and economical and fun. You kind of pop that up in your yard now and just buy these things for a few 100 bucks. And maybe I’ll pop one of those up at some point. You know, see if I can get that going.
Todd McLaughlin
Very cool. What was it like over, you said, Singapore?
Tara Stiles
Yeah, Singapore.
Todd McLaughlin
How was Singapore?
Tara Stiles
Yeah, it was great. This festival called Glow Festival brought me out for about a week and I got to lead classes there, which was really fun. And I’ve been to Singapore a few times. So first of all, it was really fun just to catch up with old friends and new friends and just be back in person with people you know, I’m just one of the millions that are so grateful to just be together with people and and do yoga and they have a great festival and I got to kind of feel like that studio affect again. It was a couple of classes a day and there was other teachers
and other experiences and lots of people. So it was just really nice to hang around and practice and just talk with people and hug people and things like that.
Todd McLaughlin
That sounds really cool. Was it structured sort of like a Yoga Journal type conference where you have a couple of teachers were teaching in different rooms at the same time, or was it one room and then you would take turns teaching with the other teachers?
Tara Stiles
Yeah, it was just one big room and they did this cool thing. It was inside. And they had these large kind of interactive screens that were like almost like a jungle. So they did this really neat tech thing. And at first, I thought everybody would be overwhelmed seeing these screens, but the room was really humongous. So kind of in the distance, you’d see an elephant kind of walking by and things like that. So it was pretty unique and, and fun to just hang around and be together with people for sure.
Todd McLaughlin
Cool. When you had a chance to teach, what type of class did you teach? Did you do like a Vinyasa flow, or what is on the forefront of your specialty these days?
Tara Stiles
Sure, I guess that I’ve always loved to lead. It was a really cool opportunity to have so many different time different time slots, you know, it’s kind of like a regular studio. And they wanted a variety of classes. So some a bit more energetic, some more gentle, some kind of in between. And everything that I love to lead is based in easygoing movement, breath, body connection, this kind of
almost East Asian influence in the yoga, but it doesn’t need to come across that way so much. But really, the idea of moving well comes from Tai Chi and shiatsu and things like that. But everybody usually says, Oh, that yoga class felt really nice. Or I didn’t know I could do something so challenging without forcing myself or It felt nice to move from my center and harmony. So I usually don’t, especially in just an open class, say, okay, now we’re going to be doing tai chi and shiatsu and learning all of these things. I just think that’s, you know, kind of too much located in the mind. So we just move and breathe and, and feel good. In that way.
Todd McLaughlin
That’s really cool. What is your timeline in terms of how long have you been practicing? And how long have you been teaching?
Tara Stiles
Oh, gosh, well, I think like a lot of people’s yoga story, I got really lucky, finding yoga was in my ballet program growing up. So I was thinking I was going to be a contemporary dancer. That was my whole life’s dream. And my ballet teacher brought yoga into our program, I guess I was 17 or 18. And instantly, just like everybody else, felt like this is amazing. And, and then my second thought was, why don’t all my friends do this? Why, you know, I felt like my family, had these values had these philosophical ideas about life. But we weren’t doing this physical practice that I felt could just kind of crack everything open and really guide life. So I just wanted to learn more and share this kind of movement all at the same time. So that kind of just kicked me off and learning more about it. And then at first kind of casually sharing what I was learning with people. And then more and more things led me to doing that with more of my time. So yeah, it’s the beginning of my life, my teenage life
years ago.
Todd McLaughlin
That’s amazing. Can you give me a timeline view of an order of different modalities that you then started to pursue and study?
Tara Stiles
Sure, yeah. Yoga was the first big practice for sure. And then I got to New York pretty shortly after to dance and do other things. But I was always kind of asking people, Hey, do you do yoga? Where do you do yoga, if you don’t do yoga, let’s do a little bit together….. this kind of a thing. And I think because New York has everything I was starting to find shiatsu places, and some ayurvedic practitioners, and all of these kind of, you know, modalities one by one. And I think like a lot of people who have started to learn one and then learn the others, you wonder, okay, are these connected? How are they connected? They don’t appear to be in isolation from each other. How can we, or how can I live in more harmony with myself and not just practice to be more knowledgeable about these modalities, but to integrate them actually in my life and to feel better and live a good life of purpose? And how can I start to communicate that in a sensible way to other people if that starts to make sense to me?
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About Melissa Influenced in my early yoga days by concepts of Iyengar and Ashtanga lineages, Vipassana meditation, and the study of structural bodywork, my yoga practice was cemented through a dedication to the Ashtanga system which since 2003, has taken me on journeys around the world to study with senior teachers. I am forever grateful to my teachers Victoria Laws, Annie Pace, R. Sharath Jois, Ruth Harting, Lee Joseph, Christopher Beaver, Dawn Eagle Woman, and the teachings of S.N. Goenka among others for some of most my profound learning journeys. I consider my path as a mother to my daughter and puppy dog to be my greatest teacher, and greatest gift, yet. I aspire to meet my students where they are in the support of healing and growth. I am in the process of obtaining my E-500 RYT status to reflect my years of study and teaching since my initial certification with Yoga Alliance in 2011. I look forward to seeing you on the mat!
Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. I’m really pleased to bring to the channel today, Melissa Friedman. Melissa is a mom. She is an Ashtanga yoga teacher. She also teaches yoga therapeutics. She is an artist, and she is a naturalist. And you can find her on Instagram @nectarofthebee. Which she also has another Instagram handle called @themedicinebeads, where she showcases her artwork, which can also be found on Etsy. If you have any questions reach out to her. And so I’m so happy that you are here. Thank you so much for your support. Your feedback is so motivational to me, I can’t tell you how much I appreciate it. So, on that note, let’s just go ahead and get started here. I’m so excited to have Melissa Friedman here today. And Melissa, you’re joining us from Telluride Telluride, Colorado. Is that correct?
Melissa Friedman
Yes.
Todd McLaughlin
Well, thank you so much for joining me. I have been watching you post about teaching primary series in Colorado. And so I’m really excited to ask you questions about yoga and all of those great things. I also just want to make mention that people can find we can find you on Instagram, and you have a handle called at @nectarofthebee and also at @themedicinebeads. And so I’m curious if you can first explain what the @nectarofthebee site is?
Melissa Friedman
So that’s my paintings. I’m a painter. And yeah, it’s so I had a little yoga studio a few years ago that I actually turned into a little art gallery at one point. And the art gallery was called Nectar Arts. So my name Melissa means honeybee and I’ve always had an affinity to honeybees. So a lot of the names of my things have centered around bees and nectar and so @nectarofthebees is my Instagram for my for my paintings for my artwork.
Todd McLaughlin
Cool. Did you own a yoga studio in Telluride?
Melissa Friedman
Yep, it was just a tiny little space. And I originally had opened it to do yoga therapy and just one on one work with people. And then I had other teachers using it and teaching really small classes for a while.
Todd McLaughlin
What time frame was that during?
Melissa Friedman
Um, gosh, that’s a good question.
Todd McLaughlin
It’s it’s 2023 right now. I’m kidding.
Melissa Friedman
I’m trying to think…. so it was a space I had for body work. I was a body worker for a long time I had a studio and this little space opened up right next to it in the same building. And I just kind of jumped on it and because I needed a place to do my yoga therapy and I had a space for it, but it wasn’t quite big enough. So I want to say it’s 2012. Yeah, something that too until I went on maternity leave in 2019 In so yeah.
Todd McLaughlin
And so I’m curious what came first bodywork or yoga practice?
Melissa Friedman
Um. bodywork came first. I mean I had started exploring yoga before that for sure. I probably got into meditation first when I was just like 14 years old or something like that. And so I started exploring Yoga I would say in college for a little bit. And then I think the bodywork, my interest in bodywork kind of led me into a deeper interest in yoga and just the body in general. So, yeah, I became a body worker before a yoga teacher before I was like crazy passionate about yoga. Yeah.
Todd McLaughlin
Where did you grow up?
Melissa Friedman
I grew up outside of Boston.
Todd McLaughlin
How did you find yourself landing in Telluride?
Melissa Friedman
Um, my sister, I have two older sisters, and one of my sisters moved here first. And I came to visit her and just fell in love with this area.
Todd McLaughlin
So that’s cool.
Where did you go to bodywork school.
Melissa Friedman
I went to a school called Pacific College of Bodywork and Awareness. It was in Kauai.
Have heard of that?
Todd McLaughlin
Yeah.
Melissa Friedman
The founder, Lee Joseph. He passed away a couple of years ago, a few years ago now. But he was just an amazing human being. And that was kind of where my journey started with it. And it just, you know, evolved from there
Todd McLaughlin
Was that in Hanalei, Kauai?
Melissa Friedman
His school at the time? I’m not sure if it stayed there after years after I left. It was. Have you been to Hawaii?
Todd McLaughlin
I have not been to Kauai. I’ve always wanted to go to Kauai because it’s a pretty epic surf destination.
Melissa Friedman
It was kind of in between towns. So I don’t know technically where it was. It was like in between Kappa and this the other small town. I can’t think of what it’s called right now. But it was just like it was built down a long winding road. And he had this beautiful property. And so the school was a separate building on his property.
Todd McLaughlin
Had you known that you wanted to get licensed as a massage therapist or certified and then consciously went to Kauai to study there or were you just hanging out on Kauai and realized this is what you wanted to do?
Melissa Friedman
Actually, I was living here and started looking into massage schools and I had heard about Kauai and that I had to go there. I asked around and another therapist here said oh my goodness, you’ve got to check out my teacher that I studied with and I looked at several schools and the second I had a phone conversation with Lee Joseph I just knew that he was my teacher.
Todd McLaughlin
Were the fundamentals in Swedish massage or was was he trained in everything and blended everything into the training?
Melissa Friedman
I would say that the fundamentals were more Rolfing based structural bodywork and he also part of the program was hypnotherapy. So a lot of what we did was very psychosomatic centered. You know, getting into the body and finding what was stored there emotionally and really getting to the root of why we get stuck.
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Originally from Montreal, Quebec, and currently living in Vero Beach, Florida. Veronique studied theatre at Russell Sage College and discovered yoga as a way to calm her mind and feel good. With over 500 hours of training as a RYT (Registered Yoga Teacher with Yoga Alliance), she is inspired off the mat to create unique and creative yoga classes. Classes are tailored based on the setting, students, and inspirational themes. Her goal is to empower and inspire her students to shine their light. She offers precise alignment cues, as well as modifications for students who are healing an injury or expressing beginner to advanced levels of practice. When guiding, she uses descriptive words and tune in to when to be silent, so that each student can simply breathe.
Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. I’m so excited to introduce to you Veronique Ory. She has a website yogawithveronique.com. She has an Instagram @VeronicaOry. All of those links are in the description below. She has a brand new book Shine On and Off the Mat, which we speak about during this podcast. Also, she has a virtual program called Coming Home. And she’s offering a yoga retreat in June down in Costa Rica. That sounds amazing. So I really enjoyed speaking with Veronique. She’s so nice. I loved it. I can’t wait for you to hear it. Let’s begin.
I’m so happy to have Veronique Ory here today. How are you?
Veronique Ory
I’m so well. How are you, Todd?
Todd McLaughlin
I’m doing really well. Thank you so much for joining me today on our podcast. I really appreciate it.
Veronique Ory
Thank you for having me.
Todd McLaughlin
I can hear some birds in the background. I can see you and I can see your house behind you…. but what are you looking at?
Veronique Ory
Yes, I’m facing this beautiful preserve. There’s a giant oak tree right in front of me that is protecting me with a beautiful orchid that’s in bloom attached to the side of it. And there’s amazing Cardinals and mockingbirds and all the Florida wildlife that emerges from the trees from time to time. Squirrels and bunnies and sometimes bobcats and armadillos.
Todd McLaughlin
Yes. That’s cool. And I noticed your dog came up to you since we’ve been chatting. Is that your dog?
Veronique Ory
Yes, my Yogi pet Bowery. He likes to sit with me when I am in baddha konasana, butterfly pose. He thinks that is the perfect place to sit on my meditation cushion with me.
Todd McLaughlin
That’s great. You would have to pay someone to assist you like that normally, but it sounds like you have a full time personal assistant.
Veronique Ory
Yeah, yeah, we have a fine exchange going on.
Todd McLaughlin
Nice. I was really excited to see that you’re located in Vero Beach, Florida. We’re not far away from each other. There’s so much building and development going on around here that the wildlife is getting pushed out. To hear beautiful bird sounds like that I’d maybe think you are in Costa Rica or down in the Amazon or something. To hear that you’re right here in Florida and there’s so many birds in the background reminds me of how much natural beauty there is here in Florida. You’re originally from Canada, is that correct?
Veronique Ory
Yes, Montreal in Quebec.
Todd McLaughlin
How did you make your way to Florida?
Veronique Ory
Oh, my so many different cities along the way. I was
In a theatre company called Athena theatre and was very much immersed in the arts, which then led me to New York City for nine years. When I was in the world of immersion and a vibrant and energetic feeling that was so alive with all the different languages and feeling so just lit up by culture and all that there is to explore I also was confronted with a lot of anxiety. And as I found yoga and was getting older and really was craving the house with the yard and a bit of sunshine boost. I’ve landed in Florida four years ago, just really wanting that upgrade and quality of life. I really feel that Vero Beach is just so peaceful. It’s such a quaint little beach town and I really love it here.
Todd McLaughlin
I love Vero! My son and I will go up there and go surfing. The waves are often a little bit better up there. Depending upon which angle the swell it can vary greatly in relation to here in Palm Beach County. I love taking a road trip to Vero. It always feels a little bit more like Old Florida to me when I go there.
Veronique Ory
Hmm, cool. Yeah, it’s, it’s a little tucked away. And it’s a little bit far from the major airports. So it isn’t so congested, like the major cities on the east coast of Florida in particular, I’ve noticed though people have started to fly down. The snowbirds are definitely here in full effect. This year I’ve been definitely feeling the difference for sure.
Todd McLaughlin
Big time. I mean, the weather here right now is so amazing. Like lately, the skies have been like crystal clear blue. And it’s like in the high 70s. It’s been absolutely amazing. So I agree the traffic is just so much more intense right now because of it.
Veronique Ory
Yeah. Yeah, there’s definitely a trend of wanting to embrace more sunshine. It definitely affects the way that you just stand and breathe and walk around. Yeah, I was marveling yesterday walking Bowery, like, there isn’t a single cloud in the sky. Am I living in a reality?
Todd McLaughlin
Was the weather absolutely amazing yesterday or what? I was like, Oh my gosh, I had that kind of moment, like, so nice. I agree. I agree. When did yoga come into the picture?
Veronique Ory
2012 is when it really landed. I had sort of nibbles over the years and I really came into it in 2012. At the sort of wake of Hurricane Sandy in New York City where all the subways closed down and we were just holed up in our apartment just waiting for the sign that it was safe to move around. And the yoga studio called the Yoga Room in Astoria and Queens opened up and my roommate Matt at the time said, “Do you want to go to this class?” And it was just sort of like this off handed…. Do you want to do this? And he probably could have said anything. And I would have been like, Yeah, let’s go. And it was one of those everything in life coming together kind of moments. That class rocked me to my core, it was so beautifully done. And one of those moments, you know, for anyone who’s landed into this sphere, it’s like you show up and you’re like, how did this teacher know exactly what I needed to hear at this precise moment, and I just signed up for a 30 day unlimited pass on the spot. And I just thought I want to feel like this all of my days. And I’ve been really into that rhythm ever since.
Todd McLaughlin
That’s cool. What type of practice was it?
Veronique Ory
It was a Vinyasa style class for the first 60 minutes and then the ending 30 minutes was restorative. And so we were just snuggled up with bolsters and blankets and just steeping in all of the movement that we moved through.
Todd McLaughlin
Very cool. Did you have like an emotional experience? Sometimes a lot of people will talk about the first time they go into Savasana after their first yoga class….. that they’ll have like a coming home experience and or feel their senses in a way that they’ve never felt? Can you explain a little bit more what you remember of that first practice?
Veronique Ory
Absolutely, I felt so much during that time because I was operating at such a high functioning, stress building rhythm. And I very much attribute myself lovingly as Type A, OCD and high achieving. I wanted to do all of the things and check off all of the tasks. And I think because I had been operating at that pace for so long, it wasn’t until I slowed down that I was able to objectively see how very much that this lifestyle isn’t healthy or sustainable in the long term at all. And I realized how much of those emotions I was storing in my body. And so much of what I’d call happiness, or my level of contentment was like so much in relationship to validation outside of myself, being in the entertainment industry. If I would receive praise in one moment I would be feeling jubilation. Then someone could give me shade and I would be wrecked. This could happen in like a 15 minute window where like I’m so ecstatic one moment, and then like bawling on the floor, in my kitchen like a puddle the next moment. And I think, you know, depending on any industry one is in, there could be that tendency you know. Like you’re seeking a raise, or you’re seeking a kind word from your boss, or whatever it is. And it’s like, when we’re constantly reaching for something outside of ourselves, we are really giving our light and our magic away. And also just like, playing with that area of where our own control habits reside. It’s really, really toxic, ultimately, in terms of finding that sense of peacefulness, and remembering what it is to actually be in this deep contentment. That is devoid of the exterior, which is, you know, so much easier said than done. But, you know, it was some of the things that started to kind of plant the seed in those regards of moving through these emotions. Unlocking so much stress and anxiety and also like, really noticing where the triggers show up. The triggers are like very at the surface when you’re living in an urban environment in particular, because you’re just like, wrestled, and sort of jostled, and with so much different energy all of the time that if you’re an empath, or you know, in tune with other people’s emotions even a little bit, you know, as human beings, we’re sponges, we tend to like pick up on the energy that we surround ourselves with. And so to be in that frequency for an extended period of time, the yoga practice was just like, so soothing. And it was just this amazing breath of fresh air. I could feel a resonant connection to the breath. I don’t know that I was breathing with any kind of awareness until then. And the breath part was actually also one of the main components that really awakened a lot of my personal yoga practice as well.
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I am pleased to present to you…….. YULADY SALUTI! It is with great pleasure I can bring to you yoga and running celebrity Yulady Saluti. Yulady is an inspiration and motivation to thousands of yoga practitioners and running enthusiasts. She is an Ostomate and Breast Cancer Survivor who has beaten the odds many times. During this podcast she shares her passion and enthusiasm for motivating the masses.
During this podcast she shares:
what got her started in yoga
the catalyst that got her started on her journey of healing and recovery
how she became addicted to drugs and found sobriety
getting past the fear of honestly telling her story
Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. I am so excited for today because it marks an anniversary. Today is episode number 100. Yes! I had the goal of getting here. And I’ve made it. I can’t believe it, and I remember after my first episode, which when I go back and listen to now I’m like, “Oh…. I’ve learned a little bit since then.” I remember thinking when I saw other podcasters that have 100 episodes and thinking, “oh my gosh,” I just gotta get started with one here. And then two, and then little by little, interview by interview, person by person here we are. It’s just been such an incredible experience for me. Every time I get a chance to interview somebody around the world who has passion for yoga and has learned something from their experience with yoga I get so inspired. I enjoy hearing their passion for bodywork and their ability to teach and to share. The stories that I’ve heard over these last 100 episodes, about overcoming challenge and the willpower that exists in us as human beings is phenomenal. The ability to jump hurdles and or to get knocked down and to come back up again and, just be here for each other and to listen and to foster open communication. For me, this is just an honor, a privilege, and I love it so much. Because of you and all of your feedback and all of your encouragement and support, we’re all here together still trucking along.
On that note, as a special guest for episode number 100. I am pleased to announce that today’s guest is you Yulady Saluti. There’s so much I could try to say to introduce you to you Yulady, but she’s going to tell you everything that you need to know. She’s incredible! She’s inspirational! And I love her passion and her honesty. So without hesitating. Let’s go ahead and begin…..
I’m so excited to have this opportunity to bring you Yulady Saluti to the podcast today. Yulady, how are you doing?
Yulady Saluti
I’m great. How are you? Nice to meet you.
Todd McLaughlin
I know, I’m so excited, because we tried to get this to happen for a little while now. So now that the moment is here, I’m just thankful. Thank you very much.
Yulady Saluti
No, thank you for being so understanding, of course, of course.
Todd McLaughlin
So I have a lot of questions for you. I’ve been following you on Instagram. And I find that you have a very inspirational message. And I guess to get started, the first thing I noticed on your Instagram, the very first thing you have written is Noli Stan, and so obviously that you’re your baby?
Yulady Saluti
Yes, that’s my granddaughter.
Todd McLaughlin
That’s your granddaughter! Okay. All right.
Yulady Saluti
So a little background on me. My husband and I have been together 20 years and we are a blended family. So when I met him, I had a daughter from a previous relationship. And he had three kids from a previous relationship. And then we have two together. So we’re like six altogether. And we’re a big family. So my my oldest, I call them all my kids. I hate this term stepchildren because I grew up with a stepdad myself and he hated when I called him stepdad. He said that and you know, eventually I was like, Yeah, I get it. I get it. So I call all of them my kids. So my older son Jerry got married during the pandemic to a lovely girl and they had a baby on last September. So I decided that I was going to turn my Instagram account into a Noli fanpage.
Yeah. She’s the best.
Todd McLaughlin
Can you share what it’s like to be a grandparent?
Yulady Saluti
Oh my god it is so amazing! I was just saying to my husband, because I was babysitting, how incredible this feeling is to be able to be with her. I babysat her for a few hours, all by myself. I just had her here it’s like, this cannot get any better than this. This also goes for people that have their own children. Like picture that feeling when you have your own baby and then magnified by like, 100. That’s the greatest feeling. And you just like I can’t believe I’m lucky enough to be part of like this. This baby is mine, like not mine. But like it’s it’s my baby. Because my grandkid is a different type of love than a child love. It’s like bigger. I don’t know if that makes it any justice. Does that give your question any justice?
Todd McLaughlin
Yeah, that’s a great explanation. It’s funny. I have a friend who was a grandpa and he used to always say, it’s double happiness. Double happiness because I’m so happy when they show up. And then when their parents come to pick them up on I’m even happier.
Yulady Saluti
You get you get to do all the hanging out and then I get to drive home and sleep all night.
Todd McLaughlin
Right, you get a full night’s sleep, and then have the joy the next day. Oh, that’s amazing. Yulady. That’s cool. Yeah, yeah, awesome. Well, you know, I mean, where do I even begin? How about can you talk about what got you started on the journey of yoga practice? I know you have a lot of talents. And I definitely want to go down the track of what you’re really passionate about right now as a runner. But I want to kind of start with what was your intro into yoga and how did your healing journey begin?
Yulady Saluti
Well, yoga is my, I guess, was my my number one passion. My first passion and probably will always be my number one passion. My husband and I would get out of work and our first thing was to get to our favorite yoga class, and it was this wonderful reward at the end of the day. And so, two weeks into it, I mean, no, two months into it, I got sick. I noticed that like, I just couldn’t handle any physical activity and not the heat, and the physical part of it. There was nothing like it and I was in and out of hospitals, and in a lot of pain. I mean, like maybe like 10 out of 10 pain in nobody could figure out what was going on. And I had to I have had a surgery. Two years prior to that and then another one a year later for these masses that they found in my colorectal area. So very high up into the rectum, like right where the colon the rectum meet. I didn’t have great health insurance. So I didn’t question anything. I said, Okay, let’s get a biopsy in. I went to get the biopsy. And that night, I got really I got really sick. And it got really, really infected. And I ended up with more pain and another surgery to fix it. And then another surgery and then that gave me like a year of relief. And that’s in that year is when I met my husband we met shortly after that we moved in together and then he and then that’s how I found yoga. So my yoga life took a pause for many years because I was sick for many years after that. And then I went to have children what happened in this part of my medical journey was I needed a colostomy bag, which is for those who don’t know what a colostomy bags is, they essentially pull your intestine out of your body and sew it to the outside of your stomach and you poop out of there. They cut the intestine out and they put it out so you don’t no longer poop out of your rectum you know your your don’t use that area anymore, you poop into a bag that you change all the time. Like a couple times a day if you need to. Yes. And I was very young I was in my early 20s, I was very uncomfortable. Having that, like, I didn’t want to share it with anybody and I kept it all very to myself. Many people that knew me, wouldn’t ever know that. I wouldn’t ever mention it. And I so that kept me from ever going back even when I started to feel better. Ever going back to a yoga class.
Todd McLaughlin
Do you feel like because of the fact that it would be noticeable through your outfit that that is why you didn’t want anyone to see you?
Yulady Saluti
Yeah. And also another thing, which I’m very comfortable with now, and it actually took me many years to get where I am was, when you have this, when you pass gas, you have no control over it, you know, because there’s no muscles holding. So it just comes in it makes the noise in same thing with poop it comes whenever you want to. So that always made me so uncomfortable. So to me that was like, “Oh my God.” Now it happens all the time and I’m with clients. And I’m like, “Oh, I’m sorry.” And it just we just laugh, you know? Yeah, yeah. So it took me a long time to get comfortable with it.
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Join my special guest, Michael Shea PhD, for a discussion titled Embodiment of the Senses Through Yoga & Meditation. During this conversation we discussed Michael’s new book titled, The Biodynamics of the Immune System: Balancing the Energies the of the Body with the Cosmos. You can preorder his new book on Amazon by clicking here.
Wow! I’m really excited to have Dr. Michael Shea again here in person at Native Yoga Center for today’s episode of Native Yoga Toddcast, which is titled Embodiment of the Senses Through Yoga and Meditation. Michael, how are you doing today?
Dr. Michael Shea
Well, it’s been a busy day because I spent the morning at the car dealership and looking at their giant aquarium waiting for the tires to be rotated and for an oil change to happen. So an entire morning at a car dealership gave me a really good opportunity to meditate on an aquarium.
Todd McLaughlin
Nice. Do you have any profound realizations in the process of staring at the fish?
Dr. Michael Shea
Always the profound realization is how wonderful space is, you know, when I get caught up and you know, not wanting to be where I’m at, at a car dealership, because I got better things to do, of just releasing my attention out into space. But in this case, it was the biggest aquarium I’ve ever seen. And just releasing my attention to the aquarium and then looking out into space as well.
Todd McLaughlin
That’s cool. You know, we have two really big announcements to share today. Number one, I’m so excited to have a copy of your brand new book called the Biodynamics of the Immune System: Balancing the Energies of the Body with the Cosmos. Whoa, that’s a lot.
Dr. Michael Shea
Yeah, he’s a big, thick steak if you’re a meat eater, but it’s also a big soy burger if you’re a vegetarian.
Todd McLaughlin
And so I’m really excited to have the chance to ask you some questions about your most recent publication. Also, you and I have created a course and today on the launch of this podcast are launching our course together called All Levels Yoga & Meditation Course. And so you know, I had a lot of fun filming this with you. And I’m excited to release it today. And it’s available on our platform nativeyogaonline.com. The link for that is in the description below for anyone listening would like to check it out. Michael, from us filming that course do you have any takeaways from the experience? What are you excited to share with people that are interested in taking that course.
Dr. Michael Shea
I think meditation in general, and yoga, is constantly evolving in our culture. And when you study yoga and meditation, because I’ve been studying it now for 45 years, something like that, is just realizing like it’s so highly nuanced. And the next teacher says, Well, have you tried this? And the next teacher well why don’t you try this to refine your practice? So there’s never really an end game. That’s the one thing I learned. But there’s a continual opening, you know, as long as you have that willingness to be open to a teacher and to a new class. And as I said, you know, earlier when we were just talking, before we started, I just like to stay with what I know versus what is trending and what’s current. I have to tell you just a short story. I’ve been studying all year with with a Lama from Tibetan medical background. But he was in Sikkim, and then in Bhutan in the summer, and he was broadcasting from there. And he was at a very high level. It’s called advisory on a tantric Buddhist conference in the capital city of Bhutan, in which all the heavy hitter Lamas from Tibet and that area of the world you know, we’re coming together for this conference, and the one thing he said is that because it was going on our planet these days, the veil of secrecy of all of these different meditation practices need to be lifted, and the secrecy needs to be taken away because we are in such an important time on this planet right now with the intensity of the polarization and duality. So, you know, one of the things I share in my book is, not necessarily sharing secrets, but sharing the techniques that can help. But I understand why some of that knowledge, some of the mystical knowledge, or the meditation knowledge, or yogic knowledge, in general, is secret. It’s just because teachers want to have you go through a progression. Because of your aptitude. Some students can’t go to the end game right away. They can’t, you know, go right out into space, you know, and stay grounded at the same time. So, at any rate, it’s exciting because I feel liberated in wanting to share more and more and that book is one vehicle of sharing more, in terms of what was formerly considered to be secret knowledge. And again, that veil has been lifted. I’ve never been good at holding secrets anyway, even my mother knew that.
Todd McLaughlin
There is a term in a book that you had given me a while back ago called the phenomenon of basic space. Can you explain that?
Dr. Michael Shea
Well, my teacher who was originally the Dalai Lama wanted all of his students to do Buddha scholarships. So I spent 10 years doing very intense Buddhist scholarship. And now I’ve even lost track of the question, explaining basic space and phenomenon. Yeah, see, I went into basic space just now.
Todd McLaughlin
I’ll pull you back in if you drift too far over there.
Dr. Michael Shea
I’ll thank you.
Todd McLaughlin
I’ll reel you in.
Dr. Michael Shea
Right, right. So it was because I want my answer to link to, you know, this discussion of, of yoga and meditation. And so as a scholar of Tibetan Buddhist literature, there’s really the two highest level people that you know, those are the writers you go for, in the Kyagu and the Nyingma, tradition, or sometimes it’s known as the Xhosa tradition. It is from the book The Precious Treasury of The Basic Space of Phenomena by Longchenpa. It’s also called Yoga. But he’s considered to be like the most incredible Lama that could give words to the ineffability of the infinite nature of our mind, and so forth, and all those things that we hear about and that we’re trying to achieve. And that’s one of his books. So that was recommended to me and I gave you a copy. And it basically explains the view of Tibetan Buddhism, before you get to meditation, it’s helpful to understand the view. And I think that’s also an important thing to understand about Buddhist meditation, you don’t just jump on a cushion and sit in cross legged position, and so forth. But it’s an understanding that there’s a view here, and the view is basically that all phenomena is infinitely equal. And we hear that as no self, you know, that we don’t have a solid self, and so forth, and that we’re all interconnected. And it’s described as being empty and other metaphors, you know, that are used, but he explains it the best. He explains it the best of how you rest into the element of space. And I’m talking about the element of space from Indo Tibetan point of view, you know, space, wind, fire, water, earth, and so forth. So how you rest your mind. That’s the sea, this is yoga and meditation, how do you rest your mind and body into the element of space where it all began?
Todd McLaughlin
So when you were talking about being at the Toyota dealership today, and staring at the fish tank, and being able to let your mind go into space, is there a way to explain a technique that allows one to achieve that release into space?
Dr. Michael Shea
Yeah, the basic technique is, well, again, you know, it’s relatively simple. And it’s one of these things it’s been secret for a while. It’s called looking into the wisdom of the universe, or looking into the center of the universe or looking into the center of space. All these are metaphors for the same thing, the infinite nature of the totality of life, and the universe. In general, so, but the technique is actually quite simple. And you know, you’re a yogi. And as a practicing yogi, I’m kind of a want to be yogi. I call myself a bogey, you know, kind of indulgent yogi. But the posture is always the first thing, you know, you said, You’ve got to embody your senses. And that means not labeling what you’re seeing, not labeling what you’re hearing, not labeling what you’re feeling, you come into a posture that allows you to sit still, and just be with your senses. Because you have to notice if you’re labeling a lot, oh, this is that, that is that, this is that. Labeling takes us into the head and out of our body and out of the experience of meditation and yoga.
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I am so delighted to bring to you Adam Keen. Adam is an amazing Ashtanga Yoga teacher who is constantly seeking answers and finding the big questions. He has his own podcast called Keen on Yoga and offers instruction via his online teaching platform. During this conversation we discuss topics like:
how to investigate yoga practice from the angle of self care
the true purpose of yoga and how to access it
Ashtanga Yoga in the modern world
the benefits of Yoga on mental health
and so much more
Visit Adam on his website: keenonyoga.com Find him on Youtube here: ADAM ON YOUTUBE Follow him on Instagram: Keen_on_Yoga Enroll in his upcoming Yoga and Mental Health Workshop here.
I’m so happy to have Adam Keen here today. Adam, how are you?
Adam Keen
Fine, lovely to be here. Thanks for inviting me. It’s really always a pleasure to be the guest rather than the interviewee. I’ve always said to people that it is actually easier to be a guest than it is to be an interviewee. To be the interviewer is challenging. When I hear people critique my interviewing style, I always say, well, I’ll set you up with the podcast next time you have a go. Because it’s really not easy, you know, to get that balance, right. And I’ve done over 100 on the Keen on Yoga podcast. Yeah, maybe 150 interviews now, and I’m still still working at it.
Todd McLaughlin
Oh, definitely. Well, on that note, you have your own podcast Keen On Yoga. I’m curious, who are your inspirations if you are to listen to another interviewer? Or who have you gained a lot of inspiration from other interviewing styles?
Adam Keen
Yeah. It’s a good question. I only listened to the older ones. I mean, obviously, you know, we’ve got a shout out to Peg Mulqueen at Ashtanga Yoga Dispatch. She has been out there for several years now. I’ve gained a lot of inspiration from from Peg obviously. I have a lot of respect for Peg for doing and you know, starting what she did so early and getting it out there with all those teachers so early. So I listened to that over the years from when she started. You know, I listen to Harmony and Russell’s podcast. I find Russell hilarious. You know Russell is a very funny guy and a friend and I’ve had him on the podcast, I find him very funny. Yeah, I know, bits and bobs. I look at stuff, at different interviews on YouTube. Yeah. Is that alright?
Todd McLaughlin
That is all right. Good answer. I was just curious. Sometimes I think that if I want to learn something here, let me let me listen to some of the greats. So that is why I am curious if there’s some people that that inspire you?
Adam Keen
Yeah. I mean, the thing is, and I don’t want to derail this to a talk about podcasts or the kind of ins and outs of being an interviewer. It is really hard thing. And you never know how hard it is until you actually do it, you know, because you want to try and get out of the way. And the difficulty is, if you’ve got something to say, like me, you end up getting too much in the way. So people I admire are able to ask the questions and somehow get out of the way enough. Because when you come in tune into someone, I know as well as anyone else, you don’t want to hear the interviewer. You want to hear the guest. Nevertheless, I tend to still speak too much in the podcast, and I always berate myself for this afterwards. I just wish I’d shut up more, you know. And so I suppose the people I respect are the people that have managed to kind of corral the interview and conduct it in such a manner that it feels they’ve guided it. Interviewers are like a great waiter, you know, seamlessly at the table. They’re never hanging at the table, and you don’t want them there. But they’re always on hand when you need them. I mean, in England one you probably don’t know, maybe do? Do you know Jonathan Ross?
Todd McLaughlin
I don’t.
Adam Keen
He’s a famous interviewer. Yeah, he’s a famous English interviewer. He’s been around many years, and he’s quite good in terms of giving people space. These are on the BBC on television.
Todd McLaughlin
Nice. Nice.
Adam Keen
Yeah. So yeah, that’s cool. You go, oh, I appreciate that.
Todd McLaughlin
When did you start practicing yoga?
Adam Keen
Yeah, straight into that one. When did I start practicing? It was in 1999, I think when I started I was at university. And I’ve told this story many times, but I’ll tell again, the obvious backdrop of how I started is that I was depressed. I was studying philosophy, as most students of philosophy are. Probably, I don’t know, what comes first? The chicken or the egg? You know, like, whether the propensity is there with a philosophy student to be depressed. It ends up you know, they call it a counselor, the therapy area of the university. So I was in therapy. And then the teacher said, the therapist said, well, you know, you and everyone else in philosophy here is depressed as well. So, I find that kind of funny, but I also found that kind of concerning. The people that come into philosophy, obviously, are the people that had questions about life. We’re using the vehicle of lucid thinking, you know, rational thinking, to work those big questions out, and it didn’t work out. And that was what shocked me. Because, you know, as an 18 year old, when I went to uni, you know, I thought it would work out. I really thought that you could think your way out of your problems in life, you know. And what I realized is that you couldn’t do that. And so I started with movement practice. I thought I was going to be tai chi but that conflicted with my night life at uni. That class was on a good drinking night and so I didn’t do the tai chi. And there was a yoga class that was on a different night, there was, you know, it was a free night, you know, non drinking. So I thought I’d go on to that. But there’s something in maybe I intuitively thought there’s something in the body, right? If it can’t be done through the mind, it must be something in the energy of the body, that’s throwing up these negative thought patterns that I’m suffering from. I thought that could maybe be changed, like a, you know, rewiring a, you know, electrical thing or, you know, like reconditioning a car engine or something. There’s something wrong with the engine, you know, that’s making these thoughts happen, rather than the other way around. Thinking that if you could think more clearly, you know, then then everything would be okay. So, I stumbled into yoga classes. Most people do. It was a hatha yoga class. It was slow, but it was challenging at the time, I was not really in good shaper. You know, as you’re not when you’re in that that period of time when you’re kind of late teens and early 20’s. You generally kind of suddenly fall off the bandwagon. You know when you’re a bit younger. I was into football, I was into martial arts, at that certain age, you kind of you just let it go. I think when women get involved we’re not really, not that it’s their fault, but they come on the scene and then that encourages bad behavior on your part. Then more drinking and reducing the the things you should do so. So that was my life at that time. Outside of philosophy, and I was not in good shape. And I found yoga to be incredibly challenging even in the easier class. I remember doing bow pose, Dhanurasana. And finding that was very, very painful. Same with forward folds. That also was incredibly challenging, almost unbearably painful. Yes. So I wasn’t flexible. I wasn’t flexible at all. It just kind of struck me though that after the first class yoga was something that I had to do. Just for my own mental health, it felt like it was definitely the right thing to do. In terms of the responsible thing to do. To take care of myself, you know, because at that time, I was also prescribed antidepressants, I was on them, you know, and I’m not gonna say anything about medication. There’s a whole lot of debate out there about medication. So I felt though that I didn’t want to be on it forever. I felt that it wasn’t something I wanted. Maybe I felt I could maybe do without them. But I couldn’t maybe just come off it just like that. So that was a really another really fundamental reason to get to that yoga class and try and do something for myself. Rather than just, you know, go to the therapy and get the prescription. With that method I felt rather disempowered. I felt like I was out of control. And the yoga made me think, basically, on a basic fundamental level that I was doing something that put me back in control. Taking control of the situation, you know. But then on my plan to get into Ashtanga Yoga or, or become good at it, you know, the asanas, that kind of happened. Just because I had to be dedicated for the mental health reasons to be quite honest with you. Yeah, I did it every day. From 15 minutes a day, and expanded to 30 minutes a day. And then I expanded it a bit longer. At that time in England, yoga was the generally the domain of like, a certain middle aged lady. At this time, you know, not necessarily the case now, but at the time, it was, like an older lady who made the mainstay of these classes. They basically kicked me out in the end. The attitude at the time was that yoga was not really for a young guy. I was 19 or 20 as a bit feisty, you know. I was pushing buttons with the questions I was asking.
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I am proud to present to you this episode called Helping Yoga Teachers become successful Yoga Professionals with Barbara Courtille. Barbara has been practicing Yoga for 25 years. It is her longest and greatest love. Barbara said, “Making Yoga my professional career is the best thing I have done.” If you know that this is the life you want to create for yourself, she can help you to make it happen. Check out this episode to hear tips that Barbara shares to help yogis level up.
Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast, I’m so happy to have you here. Today, I have the chance to bring Barbara Courtille onto the show. Barbara is located in Sydney, Australia. She was kind enough to coordinate her schedule so the times could work where we could be on the other side of the world and join up here for a conversation. Please check her out at Barbaracourtile.com. Also on our Instagram page, @Barbara_courtille_yoga. And on that note, why wait any longer? Let’s get to it.
I’m so excited to have Barbara Courtille here today with me, Barbara, how are things going for you?
Barbara Courtille
Great, I’m really happy to be talking to you on the other side of the world, Todd, thanks for having me.
Todd McLaughlin
I know, I love the fact that we can communicate like this through a platform like zoom, and the spoken word of the podcast and that it’s really an easy way to actually go about communicating. I love it. It’s kind of amazing, isn’t it?
Barbara Courtille
Yeah. And I’m a big fan of podcasts. I listen to yours amongst many others, as my learning and keeping motivated and just finding out what people are thinking all around the world and connecting to other yoga teachers who are you know, my favorite people, basically?
Todd McLaughlin
I hear you! Can you give me a little bit of your background and relation to how you first fell in love with yoga?
Barbara Courtille
Yeah, I started back in the 80s. In the late 80s. When I was you know, in my early 20. I had a boyfriend who was a yogi. And I was more of an artsy kid. You know, I was into art. I always wanted to be an artist. And I did that for many years. But his thing was yoga and meditation. He traveled to India and he used to do Iyengar yoga and headstands and kriyas and all sorts of weird stuff to me back then. Yeah. And he’s the one who took me to my first yoga class, which was an Iyengar class. And that was not actually a great experience. Because my first class I was expected to do handstands and all sorts of things that my body was not happy to do. So I can remember the teacher who was an older woman, well, older, probably younger than me now, but at the time, she seemed to kind of shame me. You know, in the Iyengar way that they do. She would just say “get up, you can do this.” So it wasn’t a great experience, that first yoga class. So it’s kind of a miracle that I’m still doing yoga all these years later. And it’s basically my whole life.
Todd McLaughlin
That’s amazing. Was that in Sydney? You’re living in Sydney currently? Where did you grow up?
Barbara Courtille
My early years, I grew up in Paris till I was 10. And then I came to Sydney. So I’ve lived in Sydney, most of my life.
Todd McLaughlin
Nice. Was that first class in Sydney?
Was that first practice session that you had with your boyfriend and Iyengar teacher in Australia, or was that somewhere else?
Barbara Courtille
No, totally in Sydney. Yes.
Todd McLaughlin
Gotcha. And then from there, if you were not enamored, and you walked away from that sounds like maybe you saying, “What in the world was that?” What then was your next step? Or how long was it before you had another yoga practice experience?
Barbara Courtille
I think after that I did some meditation. And that didn’t gel with me as well. It was very strict Buddhist meditation. So I didn’t have a great start to yoga, but for some reason, I think I ended up in some what were then called Hatha classes. Back then you used to do them like in church halls or at you know, the community center or whatever it was available. It wasn’t like the fancy yoga studios like your studio. There was none of that stuff back then. And it was very much in people’s lounge rooms and all that. So I think I probably found some much more mellow, lovely kind of teachers that weren’t gonna ask me to do anything nasty like turn upside down. It took me many years before I could do a proper handstand with all the proper, you know, structure that you need for that.
Yeah.
Todd McLaughlin
Do you have a teacher that you can say that you credit your learning to or from? Or have you just learned from a whole bunch of different teachers along the way?
Barbara Courtille
I’ve learned from a whole bunch of teachers along the way. Yeah, I’ve never been a lineage kind of teacher either. I’ve explored different lineages. I think it’s just in my nature to try different things and find my own way.
So I’ve done a lot of Hatha Yoga, then I went back to the Iyengar yoga, believe it or not. Then I was into Jivamukti Yoga for a long time. And then I was more into vinyasa. Then I was into Yin. I was also doing sound healing. So I’ve done all this stuff, restorative yoga, and I just keep going and changing and learning as much as I can and incorporating what what resonates with me.
Todd McLaughlin
Wonderful. What does a practice session look like for you today?
Barbara Courtille
So this morning, I did some yoga in bed.
Todd McLaughlin
Nice.
Barbara Courtille
And then I got up and did a bit of asana practice, very simple. Plugging into the body noticing where our whole tension, which for me is generally in the upper body, so I do a lot of work on the upper body, opening the chest, opening the heart, I work a lot on the chakra system and the energy body. So I do some meditation to tune in some chanting to feel where the energy is flowing, where it might be stagnant, where it might be overflowing. And it’s from that observation that then direct my practice. So it will look different every day. But there are some things that tend to always be there, like the throat chakra is a bit of a weakness for me. I just had a little bit of manuka honey and did a bit of throat exercises before talking to you because it’s always a little bit weak. That part for me, yeah, the upper body, a lot of upper body, I’m quite strong in my lower body. I’m quite grounded, as by nature spend a lot of time in nature. I like to meditate in nature every day, if I can. If the weather’s good, so I’m lucky I live near some nature, Bush, we call it here in Australia. And so I’ll go and find a rock and I’ll do a bit of meditation. And that’s, that’s really my most nurturing practice meditation.
Todd McLaughlin
That’s cool. I noticed that you have a couple pictures or pictures of you practicing on a rock is that the rock that you’re talking about?
Barbara Courtille
That rock is called Swamis rock. It’s not where I live, but it’s where I go on retreat. So two or three or four times a year, if I’m lucky, I’ll go to the ashram which is not far from where I live. Maybe an hour away in nature. And that’s a particular rock where a swami here in Australia has been practicing for many, many years. So it’s got a lot of great energy.
Todd McLaughlin
Nice. Do I noticed that you are a yoga coach and mentor, when did that role come into play for you?
Barbara Courtille
I think it probably came into play fully when COVID came along. And when a lot of teachers suddenly had to become or realize that they were business owners, and that they had to find their own community, their own tribe and take charge of their own business or their own passion. Yeah, without relying on studios, or whatever they were relying on before that time. So that’s when a lot of yoga teachers, as you know, you know, kind of had a little bit of a pivot into becoming more business minded because they had to. Yes. So there was a lot of demand when COVID came along, when everyone was having, you know,
Todd McLaughlin
Yeah, that was pretty intense. Very intense. Wasn’t it? Amazing that now we can like talk like it’s past tense?
Barbara Courtille
Yeah, no, it’s great.
It’s really great to find wisdom. We survived on a lot of different levels.
Todd McLaughlin
I agree.
Barbara Courtille
I actually think yoga teachers did exceptionally well if we can put them all in a group because obviously, we’re all different within that group. And as a tribe, I think they, from what I’ve observed, did really well in terms of like pivoting and changing, keeping their spirits up and keeping the spirits of all the people around them up? You know, it was It wasn’t an easy task. So congratulations to all the yoga teachers out there.
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It is with great pleasure I can bring to you Judith Hanson Lasater, PhD, PT. Judith has taught yoga around the world since 1971. Judith offers numerous live events, digital courses, and has published ten books. Including Yoga Myths, and her most recent book, Teaching Yoga with Intention.
Judith Hanson Lasater is an American yoga teacher and writer in the San Francisco Bay Area, recognized as one of the leading teachers in the country. She helped to found The California Yoga Teachers Association, the Iyengar Yoga Institute in San Francisco, and Yoga Journal magazine.
During this conversation I have the chance to ask Judith questions about her new book, Teaching Yoga with Intention andthe importance of cultivating non violent communication as a yoga teacher.
Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. My name is Todd McLaughlin. I’m so happy you’re here. If you’re a first time listener, welcome. And for those of you that have been with me all along, your support means the world to me. I’m so pleased! I feel that my next guest here does not need an introduction. She is a famous yoga teacher, and I have utmost respect for her. Her name is Judith Hanson Lasater, and you can find her at www.judith.yoga.
Judith Hanson Lasater is a PhD. She’s a Physical Therapist. She’s taught yoga around the world since 1971. She offers numerous live events, digital courses, she’s published 10 books. And today the focus of our conversation is speaking about her most recent book called Teaching Yoga with Intention. So I want to express a huge thank you to Judith because she was so kind and accepting my invitation to be here on this podcast. And without any further ado, let’s get started.
Todd McLaughlin
I am so thrilled to have Dr. Judith Hanson Lasater here today. Judith is a PhD and Physical Therapist and a yoga teacher since 1971. Judith, how are you?
Judith Hanson Lasater
I’m doing well. Thank you very much. I hope the same for you.
Todd McLaughlin
I am really excited about this. I actually couldn’t sleep last night because I was so excited for this.
Judith Hanson Lasater
Oh, tell my children that! Or can you tell my grandchildren that? That they could be equally as excited when I call and talk to them.
Todd McLaughlin
Yeah, you can you can tell them that. I hope they’ll listen to you and appreciate that. Well, this is a great opportunity! I got a chance to read your most recent book called Teaching Yoga with Intention, The Essential Guide to Skillful Hands on Assist and Verbal Communication. I’m really excited to get a chance to talk to you about this today. Before we even go down that track though, I’m curious if you can just tell me a little bit about how and what you’re doing these days? Like what does your yoga practice and teaching like these days?
Judith Hanson Lasater
Well, one of the exciting things is beginning to teach live again. Traditionally yoga courses were taught one on one. And it was BKS Iyengar in the modern era who really began, initiated and created this whole idea of classes. But it’s still live, you can still feel the room. When you teach, you can still make eye contact with each person, if that’s appropriate. And so what I’m finding is this huge thirst, to be in community. To be in Sangha. To be with other people and just their presence. Practicing with you in the room is a nonverbal but very powerful support. And we all need that right now. So that’s what I’m liking. And that’s what’s alive for me. I’m very excited about this new book, because I wrote it during the pandemic. It flowed out of me. And that’s always a good sign for a writer.
Todd McLaughlin
I hear you! I think it’s an amazing book. I enjoyed reading it immensely. I found so many great points. I feel like you really honed in on some of the things that when I think, “how would I explain this to somebody?” And I have a loss of words. You did a great job of really laying out the foundation for healthy communication with us both verbally and if we use the power of touch in our in our teaching. So I think you did an amazing job.
Judith Hanson Lasater
Thank you. But before we go into the book, I really would like to follow, I’m all excited, of course to talk to you about, I’d like to follow my tradition of when I speak from the mat, or from the cushion, or in this place from my office chair, that I speak about what I think is, for us, all of us are listening, a really important part of our lives, which is our practice, I’d like to start with a moment of silence,
Todd McLaughlin
That’d be great.
Judith Hanson Lasater
So I’m going to ring my bell. And what I suggest you do is to sit and sit in front of your sitting bones, which brings your pelvis forward and then brings the pelvis under the spine to be like a pot to support this curvy, winding, fine, normal curve. So the brain in the head can float on the top of it. And that physical alignment will resonate through us energetically as well. And then my suggestion is that during that moment, if you find it interesting, useful and or pleasant, just imagine the very center of your brain geographically from the sides of your head from the top and the bottom and the front of the back, the deep center of the gray and just like a wave moving away from the shore, you stay rooted in that not ringing the bells and about a minute I’ll ring them again.
Todd McLaughlin
Wonderful.
Judith Hanson Lasater
All right, fire away with your questions.
Todd McLaughlin
First of all, I love the visual of wave pulling away from shore. That’s, that’s a really beautiful visual that works with that sensation of trying to put your attention right in the center of the brain. Is that something that has came to you? When a while practicing meditation? What made you think of that?
Judith Hanson Lasater
That’s a good question. It just popped into my consciousness one day, and I actually find that I can do that. With my eyes open. And I do it in conversation. I’ll be doing it a lot through our talk. It’s just a very, it takes you away from thinking. Did you notice that? Yeah. Because I have this word I’ve made up. You know, we all know the word mindfulness. But I really liked the word, body fullness. And when we can have, whenever we have the space that we can become aware of sensation, like the weight of our body on the chair, the floor. The sensations of the breath, is when we can cultivate our attention to be aware of the sensation of the moment. We step out of thought, because it’s we stepped from that space into into the present, into the present moment because sensation only occurs in the present moment. You can remember that yesterday you stubbed your toe and it hurt, but you can’t recreate that sensation in the present. So sensation lives in the moment. And when we put our awareness on the body, bodily sensation, we must then not be dancing with thought.
So here’s another technique that arose in me. And it was this idea of the tongue. So let’s try this for a second. Go back to the center of your brain.
And release your tongue from its roots, and let it lie flat in the mouth. Now, when I do that, that deepens the silence for me. Did you find that?
Todd McLaughlin
Yeah, to bring the attention to it or to even just put it right into the mouth, but then try to actually get my tongue to relax? That’s a good one.
Judith Hanson Lasater
No, no, don’t try.
Todd McLaughlin
Don’t try?
Judith Hanson Lasater
Invite. Invite. So here’s what I’ve reasoned out about that is the tongue is not just an organ of digestion, a muscle. It’s also an organ of speech. And so it’s neurologically connected to the speech centers. So we have parts of our brain that are very connected with speech and writing. And thinking because we think in words, have you ever seen a little kid? Or maybe you did this yourself? I remember doing it. When I was learning to write. Sometimes my tongue would be outside my mouth or writing the letter? Yeah, yeah. Because it’s the tongue, you have motor skills. Yeah, babies, infants have to learn how to swallow. They have to learn to swallow. Meaning that with the tongue, and how they nurse and all of that. So I think that when we relax the tongue, and there is some evidence to this, we affect the neural pathways to the brain. And so when I combined, for me, the center of the brain, release the top. Let the heart, expand to its truth. Then descend to the pelvis and feel the pulse of life of being in the pelvis. Thank you, we are then radically present in the being of the body, which lives in the moment. Did you find anything of that in this moment?
Todd McLaughlin
I did! Two things I love right off the bat is the language you used around, don’t try….. instead invite. That’s amazing. That’s a big shift. And then I started thinking, Well, we really don’t have anything to talk about now. Because you got to the heart of it all already.
Judith Hanson Lasater
All will be well.
Todd McLaughlin
You got to the heart of the matter right off the bat.
Judith Hanson Lasater
Can I tell you a story about that?
Todd McLaughlin
Yes, please.
Judith Hanson Lasater
So my second time that I went to Russia, I think I went the first time in ’89. When the wall was coming down, and then again in ’91. And the first time I went, there were just a couple of, two or three Americans there. But then there were a larger group that went and we were in a big cafeteria in one of the big hotels, where we were all staying and then a group of Russian yoga teachers came walking towards us. They came in, you know, and I because I’d been there before. Got up, everyone was like, what did we do what we do? And so I got up and walked towards them. And pretty soon other people started coming and we started introducing ourselves and I remember distinctly talking to a woman and I was doing this southern girl, chatty, chatty. Your city is beautiful, I got it that you know, whatever. And she reached over and she grabbed me by the upper arm. And she leaned into me and she said, No, let us talk a real thing. I love that. That’s what you, that’s what you and I are about I think right now.
Todd McLaughlin
Yeah. Let’s get right to the to the heart of it. That’s amazing. Judith. Well, in your book, you mentioned the importance of language. And you mapped it into like three different stages. Can you please define and explain the three levels or stages of learning about language and the teaching of yoga?
Judith Hanson Lasater
Would you prompt me on that, please?
Todd McLaughlin
I will. Because the first one is how you talked about how first as a yoga teacher, we transfer info “about the pose.” Like the first level of conversation is kind of like, okay, Triangle Pose. And let me just convey some words to help you get from point A to point B.
Judith Hanson Lasater
Yeah, it’s just information. Yeah, it’s like, it’s technique, which is very important, because technique affects energy and organs and state of mind, the nervous system, and we’re very complex. In fact, you know, years ago, people used to say, body, and mind and body were completely separate. That was the western view. And then it started hyphenating, that term. MInd-body. Interesting. You know, and then there was a period, you’d see it written as one word, I see it a lot. Now mindbody is one word. So I’ve made up a word, which is mody. Mody. Because the body and the mind on are so one.
Todd McLaughlin
Yeah, that’s a great word.
Judith Hanson Lasater
Mody. So yeah, I mean, we should get it, we should get it in the dictionary, another word I made up, it’s not just multi-tasking, it is hyper-tasking. So you know, if there, so I want uni-tasking to be in the dictionary. And we, this spiritual practice asked the question, “Can we do one thing at a time?” And usually, the answer is no way Jose. So, yes, the first part of communication is, of course nonverbal. But if we get past that, we’re giving them information. Because if someone comes in and says, teach me how to do yoga, and we just say, do Triangle Pose, we need to tell them turn the left foot in the right foot out, stretch the arm, etc. But that’s not our most important job. So number two?
Todd McLaughlin
The beginning of the personalization of instructions.
Judith Hanson Lasater
Yeah, so a leader in yoga is someone who leads the class. I’ve even seen people turn their back and just do their practice, and people follow them. Which surprises me, so you’re leading. But then teaching begins When you can say to this person, please put your feet wider apart into this next person, would you bring them closer together, when there’s an individuation, of how we can support each pupil expressing the beauty of their Trikonasana in this moment. In ways that keep them safe, and open their heart and mind the same time and bring them into their body into their own self. So that’s a deeper, that’s a real teacher. The teacher sees both the difference and the absolute unity among all people, and to help them help the students. What’s the third one?
Todd McLaughlin
I think you’re correct! You answered that really well, thank you. That when the teacher is able to communicate in such a way that their words evoke, or conjure the pose from the student, or how the student can discover the pose already exists within them. And I love how you wrote as an ancient archetype. That’s so cool. Like the thought of…..
Judith Hanson Lasater
A pyramid. Which is a three dimensional triangle. Yeah, so that presupposes the understanding that we could never teach anybody anything. We can only create an environment in which people choose to learn.
So the question is, how are we going to create that environment with our language? So I make intentional choices. I don’t say good or bad, right or wrong. Oh, I might say to a student, I really liked the way your knee is in that pose, or I’m concerned about placement of your knee, would you try this and see what you think how it feels to you. So because if I come, you know, stomping in the class, and say, do this, do this, do this. And then I learned something and I wanted to change my mind, I’ve painted myself in a corner. So what I want to teach in that part of the of the pose is twofold. The second stage, is like I want to teach them technique in a way that underscores trusting that they trust themselves. First, I want to use my words in a class, to create an environment in which people are trusting themselves and at the same time they’re willing to try something new. And I’m not there to impose the pose to fit them in a cookie cutter. So I like to say to my students, I don’t want to teach you rules, I want to teach you principles. Because that’s a bigger, bigger idea. There are anatomical principles about how the pelvis can move over the femoral heads, in Trikonasana that will relieve the lower back and create a sense of ease and dynamism at the same time. You know that in Patanjali’s yoga sutra, chapter two verse 46, Sthira Sukham Asanam. It’s a definition of Asana. So abiding in ease is asana. So an Asana is that which we can be in which we can be still, and at ease. And it’s really ironic, we think of as movements that are difficult.
Todd McLaughlin
Good point!
Judith Hanson Lasater
How can I create an environment in which people find their Trikonasana? And often it’s not airy fairy? I mean, there are boundaries, there are alignment principle. You could be, you know, hyperextending your knee or whatever, that guidance. But the asana, Todd, the asana isn’t the yoga. It’s the residue, that the asana leaves in the nervous system that is the yoga. Because Yoga is not just, you know, to paint with a broad brush, Asana, Pranayama, meditation. Those point to the potential of presence, which is the state of yoga. So we confuse them. People say I am going to do yoga, like, what? When are we all going to say I’m going to go in my own? Right? And bring that into the world. And bring that. That state of presence. Compassion.
Todd McLaughlin
Great point, Judith. Was there a point in your transformation through your yoga journey where maybe you were practicing a yoga pose and thinking about that yoga sutra, where it’s mentioning that the asana should be stable and comfortable. And thinking, “how in the world could this be comfortable?” I’m in this really like, uncomfortable position right now. And has that informed your teaching and evolution of your practice over the years?
Judith Hanson Lasater
Yes, but it wasn’t a thought. It was an experience, which I’m happy to share with you. So I was taking a class from another teacher. And I was doing what it at that time, for me was my favorite pose, which was Paschimottanasana, which is just sitting on the floor, leg straight and bending forward. Which I think is the hardest forward bend because there’s nowhere to hide. Like, if you’ve bend one knee, if you’ve bend one day like Janusirsana, you can cheat all over the place. But you cannot cheat in Paschimottanasana. It’s you and your hamstrings baby that it is no getting away from it. And it’s also true I think in Urdhva Dhanurasana, and it’s the most difficult backbend. Because when you’re doing one side, Raja Kapotasana, or you’re doing one side of another posture, there is a way to work off to the one side of something in there. Alright, so that was my favorite pose. And I was I like to say I had my hamstrings surgically removed at birth. I just felt like for a long time, and I’m, you know, just sort of naturally a little loose. And so it’s just flat down, you know, forehead on the shins. I mean, I felt a little bit of stretch. But not much, you know, I was pretty comfortable there. And my mind was spinning like what are we going to how long are we gonna be here? What’s happening with that other person doing what I’m going to have for lunch after class, you know, the normal, useless brain chatter. And then there was experience and I want to treat this story with humility, gratitude, and wonder. And I had the sense that something just kind of flew out of me. And I still felt the stretch but I wasn’t doing anything. And I just stayed there. It wasn’t like I even stayed. It was like, there was no deep reason to move. There was no discomfort, there was no agitation. I just stayed there. And finally the teacher said, come up, and I didn’t come up. Because I didn’t know what that meant. Literally, it was so bizarre. He said, come up, and I’m like, what does that mean? Because he was, it would be as if I were saying to you stop jumping up and down. Yeah. And you know what? I’m not jumping. Yeah. So he said, stop doing the pose. And I’m like, what is he talking about? And then this little ego stuck it’s head out behind the tree and my consciousness and said, Wow, that was cool. I started, you know, then it shifted again. But I thought to myself afterwards, well, I’d finally practiced one pose. It was my first pose, you know, it was years into my practice, but…. So, does that answer your question does?
Todd McLaughlin
Yes. Perfectly. Since I’ve read your book, I’ve been extra thoughtful about my speech and my touch, in a good way. In a really good way. Like, maybe I was just on autopilot for a little bit. I kind of forgot how important it is. And you made mention, in your book, this is quoting you “we speak to manipulate the world around us” end quote. Can you explain that? It makes sense to me. It makes sense to me, but love it. I thought it was actually kind of profound when I heard that. We speak to manipulate the world around us. I might think, “I’m not trying to manipulate the world.” I’m just getting through the world here. So I love that sentence.
Judith Hanson Lasater
Okay. So first, let’s look at the word manipulate, because that has a negative connotation. But if we’re truthful, Todd, you are manipulating the world around you all day long. You go for a run, you’re manipulating your consciousness, right? Go for a run, you smoke a funny cigarette, you smoke a real cigarette. Not that you do these things. You have coffee, you want your caffeine which manipulates your nervous system. You do your Pranayama or your yoga. You stand on your head, all this manipulate your nervous system. You go to sleep and that manipulates your nervous system. We’re always seeking homeostasis. In fact, you are choosing, you know, when you eat, you feel different. You manipulate your nervous system. That’s what human beings do. And there are two kinds of manipulation. There’s the unconscious one and the conscious one. And so to me, that’s what yoga is about is paying attention to how doing Savasana. Savasana manipulates your nervous. Does it not?
Todd McLaughlin
It does.
Judith Hanson Lasater
Okay, so that’s a conscious manipulation. So the question is not, should I not manipulate, it’s am I doing it consciously, to live my highest values. And that’s what yoga makes us aware of. And this speech that I’ve that I’ve studied this technique of nonviolent communication has radically changed my relationship, in my interaction with my children as they were growing up, and in intimate relationships and in teaching.
And the best way we can do that. Well, let me let me let me back up a second.
Every time I go to teach, whether it’s online or in person. The first thing I do is have the one minute. And during that one minute I connect with myself. This is the first rule of teaching. When I sit there in front of you today or in class. The first thing I do is I ask myself this question. What is alive in me right now? Am I anxious? Am I happy? Am I sleepy? Am I irritated by the discussion I just had with someone? It doesn’t really matter what is arising in me but when I get connected with that. Oh right now I’m tired or right now I’m excited. Right now I’m worried about one of my children. It was always one of the three was at the top of the worry list, you know, over the years. Whatever, whatever is arising in me when I notice it. That when I bring it into the light. It connects me with the present moment. And I go, Ah, yes, I’m feeling excited. Ah, I don’t judge it. I don’t try to make it different. I don’t try to fix it. I just notice it. Because, and name it to myself. Right now I’m sad. Because my uncle died. I’m just sad right now. Okay. That’s what’s alive in me, then I’m firmly present. Radically present I call it because we’re very rarely there. So the next thing I want to do is I want to be able to see you. And I can’t see you and or connect with you if I’m not connected with myself. So when I see you, and it’s really tricky, because I’ve taught for 51 years. I have students who’ve been with me for 45 years.
Todd McLaughlin
Wow, that is amazing!
Judith Hanson Lasater
You know everything about them. You know them before they met their husband, before they got married, when they got divorced, and they had these kids, and they had this surgery, then this. And so it blurs in a way, your objectivity. So when I go to teach somewhere where I don’t know, most of the people, I sometimes feel that my best teaching. Because I don’t see my friend. I see a human being, you know what I’m saying? You may know what I am saying. So that. Yeah, so the second part of this is I want to see the person standing in front of me. They may have been there for many weeks, or never again, but can I be present with that person in this moment?
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Join in listening to this wonderful conversation I had with Michael Harris.
Michael has been telling “sit on the edge of your seat stories” ever since his first show and tell in grade school – some stories will make you laugh – others are quite tragic that could bring any listener to tears. He shares in his #1 book, Falling Down Getting UP, how starting in 1987, yoga helped heal him from several near fatal predicaments.
Today, Michael is a popular yoga teacher with three certifications from Erich Schiffman, Integral Yoga and Bikram Yoga. In addition, he is an author, lifelong entrepreneur and co-founder of Endless Stages – a company dedicated to help motivated yogis, healers and entrepreneurs get their personal voice, message and story out to the world.
We’ll just so the listeners are aware you you gave me the best surprise ever because we had scheduled to do this podcast quite a while ago. I know we worked really hard at finding a date that we could both organize to make this work. Just prior to me hitting the record button, Michael, you reminded me that you and I had met in California, at Bikram Yoga Teacher Training. You were one of the teachers that were helping teach some of the classes at the training. I didn’t even know that was you when we were scheduling this appointment. So now the fact that I’m getting a chance to speak with you I am so exited. I remember you very clearly. I loved your classes! I felt like you were a grounding force in a really wild world. You know? I’m just now getting a chance to pick your brain and find out where you are at with Bikram yoga, and what you’re doing now. So on that note, can you just start telling me and filling me in on your journey? And I guess I’ll be a little more specific. Let’s go way, way back. Can you tell me the first time you start practicing yoga? What was the first yoga class you ever got a chance to take?
Michael Harris
Absolutely. You know, the first time that I took a yoga class was 1988. Yes. Or excuse me,1987. I had vascular surgery in November of 1986. I had blocked arteries. The doctors at the time suggested that they may need to amputate my leg. I was pretty blunt to them and saying that that wasn’t gonna happen. I ended up at a place called Pritikin Longevity Center, which is in Santa Monica, but no longer there. By the ocean right down on the boardwalk pretty close to the Santa Monica Pier. When I first got there, I was walking on a cane I could walk literally about 10 feet. Cane in one hand, my other hand on the wall. Well, I could barely walk. To make a long story much shorter. The doctors that I was seeing in Portland for my vascular disease suggested that when it hurt that I should not move my body. And not to walk. The doctor at the Pritikin Center said when it hurts, keep walking. In hindsight, it was a huge spiritual wake up call to me. It was one of a number of times that I can identify over the years. But that particular one, he says get up and walk and walk through the pain. He says I just want you to go out there on the boardwalk and start walking. Initially, I was pretty scared to. I was in serious pain and was nervous because the movement seem to make me feel more pain. Yet he said, “Yes, it’s gonna hurt.” And he says, “Just keep doing what you can do.” Well, here I am. You know, 1987 that was actually March of 1987. There was a lot of women on rollerblades. And here I am. I’m a sick man. And I don’t want to be a sick man. I want to feel strong and healthy. And I had already had a lot of self esteem issues and everything else that I’ve struggled with. And so I wanted to walk tall. So within two weeks, I went from walking 10 feet to two miles, unassisted without my cane without a wall.
TM
Wow.
MH
And the sheer process of moving my body. Of walking, going one foot in front of the next, helped to build new blood vessels in my leg and collateral blood vessels.
TM
Wow.
MH
So as those new vessels were being built, in addition to that, the popliteal arteries where the primary blockages were began to heal as well. So not only was I getting the collaterals, I was also getting the popliteal artery to begin to heal. So answering your question about the first yoga class, the first yoga class was at the Pritikin Longevity Center. Now, granted, it wasn’t a very vigorous class. It was mostly for people in rehabilitation of some sort. It was really known more for weight loss. Although I wasn’t heavy, I’ve never really been heavy in my life. So losing weight wasn’t my challenge, they actually wanted me to gain weight. But there’s also a plant based facility at Pritikin Longevity Center. So they said I can eat as much food as I want. So I was walking, I started doing some yoga classes in the basement, and I was eating all the plant based food I could possibly eat.
TM
Nice.
MH
Yeah, it was good.
TM
Well, that’s incredible! That’s a really great story in terms of endurance and overcoming, like you said, that fear of working into the pain. Having that question like, “what do you mean…..walk more?” That whole transformation process of pushing through that. I’m curious, from taking yoga in the Pritikin environment there. What was your next step in relation to seeking other types of yoga? What was the evolution? How did it evolve from here?
MH
Yep. Well, I was living in Portland at the time, so I was just down there for the Pritikin Center. And when I went back to Portland, I started going to a yoga class at the gym. Because I was doing the gym, I was doing the treadmill. When I first started doing the treadmill, actually, was at Pritikin Center. I was going point three miles an hour. As slow as the treadmill would move. That’s how slow I was going. And I was struggling. But I did more at the gym. And I was also walking in a park near my house as much as I could, but they had a yoga class there. And I would not call it a gym yoga, you know, however you want to perceive that to be, but it was a wonderful class. And at the end, they did candle gazing and I really liked it. When they would have me do downward dog. I would fall out of it. I couldn’t do much. But it led me to another general hatha yoga class. Diane Wilson was quite important for years. And I started taking her class. And I’m kind of jumping here ahead a little bit. I started doing Ashtanga Yoga. I saw a flyer for Yoga for Skiers. And I hadn’t skied for years because my condition and I want to get back to skiing. Somebody named Beryl Bender Birch was in Portland teaching and I thought, well, I’m gonna go to this thing and see if I can start skiing again. Well, I had what some people would call perhaps a kundalini experience and feeling the sensations in my body. Like tears flowing and just like opening up. Through this process and diving into Ashtanga I did a lot of stuff with David Swenson and a guy named Clifford. A lot of people don’t know who he was. He was one of the really early people. Nancy Gilgoff. I got a lot of time with her over in Maui.
TM
Isn’t her place amazing? When you gotta look for the tomato sign when you’re driving up country on Maui? Everyone tells you like look for the tomato farm sign and then pull it you’ll find the house of Zen right? Is it called House of yoga and Zen or house of Zen? What a great little setup. That little wooden barn kind of yoga studio structure on that farm. Wow, studying with Nancy is like a real treat. That’s amazing. That’s cool, Michael. I love David Swenson. I’ve never had a chance to practice with Beryl Bender Birch, but she’s a bit of a legend in the Ashtanga vinyasa world as well.
MH
Yeah. And a little bit more in synchronicity with Nancy. I don’t like staying in motels or hotels. So I was looking for a place to stay in apartment, a house something to rent. I rented this place. And you know, this guy named Gary and I called him and I said, Oh, do you know that Nancy? He says, oh, yeah, and that was about it. Didn’t say much. Well, when I got there, and it was rented apartment in his basement, do you know who Gary Kraftsow is?
TM
Oh yeah, he’s one of the famous teachers of Viniyoga.
MH
One of his primary teachers was really close to Desikachar. I had no idea when I rented this place who it was. So here I am staying at Gary Kraftsow’s house. Also studying with Nancy. Wow. It was just like, you know, I mean, totally immersed.
TM
That’s right. When I lived on Maui for a year, and I remember seeing that he had a center in the upcountry area when I started looking into yoga. I never went but I remember his place was associated with a bodywork studio that always looked so interesting to me. That’s really cool. I can imagine that. Yeah, you’re staying with Gary, you’re getting your butt kicked with Nancy and in a good way. So at this point, I’m thinking you’ve made a pretty radical transformation from holding on to the wall walking 10 steps, if you’re hanging out with these yoga legends? Were you “back to normal” at this point? Where are you at at this phase?
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Check out this discussion I had with Nona Mileva. Visit Nona at her website wellyoga.net. Nona is a Certified Life, Wellness and Health Coach, Yoga Teacher and Educator, based in Jupiter, FL, United States. She works with a wide range of clients, from variuos backgrounds and age, via in person, phone or Zoom sessions. Her coaching is holistic. It entails all aspects of the client’s life – emotional, psychological, physical, spiritual , as it authentically reflects the most important human needs. She focuses on the therapeutic modalities and applications of Yoga as a practice and discipline that enhances health and wellbeing.
You can listen to the full podcast episode for free here.
Todd McLaughlin
I’m so happy to have Nona Mileva here visiting in Native Yoga Center. We get to do an in person podcast! Nona, How are you doing today?
Nona Mileva
I am good. Thank you so much for having me. Good to see you.
TM
Same as well, I got to meet you, Nona, because you came into Native Yoga Center very enthusiastically inquiring about yoga teacher training a few years ago. You completed our 300 hour Yoga Teacher Training which brought you into like the RYT 500. realm. And you also are involved in teaching in Stuart at a place called District 108, in Stuart, Florida. Also at the Powerhouse Gym in Stuart. You also teach therapeutic yoga in some of the local retirement communities. You have recently completed getting your PhD in health psychology. And you’re currently working toward Yoga Therapy Certification. Which you said will be completed in December 2022. So you’ve been very busy…. And that’s something that I really admire about you is you love to study. You put a lot of time and energy into reading and studying. And you’re you’ve expressed a lot of interest and enthusiasm for the history and the philosophy of yoga. And so that’s why I’m really excited to have you here today. Because I can just pick your brain a bit and see what kind of like “Top hits” have made it onto your playlist for yoga philosophy and yoga history. And so on that note, what is something that you have read about and or practiced or studied recently that’s caught your attention that you’re excited about?
NM
How I love how you you’re beginning this conversation? Thank you for the intro firstly. Yes, I have been busy. And this is just, what can I say, my mode of functioning, learning, being always curious about things and topics. So my latest educational conquests, so to speak, or interests have been since COVID. Which, as you know, was to some extent, a traumatic experience. Then from a different perspective, it opened new doors. It made us more creative, looking for opportunities to keep doing what we love doing, which for us is yoga, obviously if we are talking about it. I have begun studying and doing a yoga philosophy course, of course is online, with Professor Edwin Bryant. He’s one of the most renowned names among Hindu researchers and philosophers and translators in the field. He’s at Rutgers University in…. I think it’s New Jersey or New York. So what he started doing is to record all his lectures, and then putting them up online for free.
TM
Wow!
NM
Absolutely amazing, isn’t it?
TM
Yeah.
NM
Yeah. It always amazes me when people share their knowledge with such immense generosity. So that got me into the groove of daily or twice a week. Sit down through those lectures or just doing my thing and listening to them. And pretty much it’s all the six directionals, the schools of various philosophical discourse and the man is a very knowledgeable teacher and scholar. He knows a lot about everything. His focus is bhakti. He is initiated in this tradition.
TM
So can you explain bhakti to us?
NM
In the discourse of yoga, bhakti yoga is the yoga of devotion. It’s the kind of yoga that is being practiced as a devotional yoga. Practitioners direct their attention, their energy towards a benevolent worship of a deity. In this case, usually Krishna is the the subject of the affection. There is lots of mantra and chanting. There’s lots of dancing and singing, praising, praising the Bhagavan. So think of the Bhagavata Purana, those ancient texts. All the Krishna stories, by the way, they’re amazing, amazingly entertaining and interesting stories. If anyone really wants to learn more about them, just go read them. They’re with tremendous sense of humor also created so many years ago. Yeah, so we would sit through those, he would just open the texts, and to about 300 people there, either live or from the recorded lectures will be listening and then following the stories, he would stop you with comments. And this, this goes for every subject. Whether you want to learn about like Patanjali’s Yoga Sutras, whether you want to learn about Vedanta sutras, or Nyaya but more the stories of Krishna. So that’s what I kept doing for about a year, then he started doing live svadhyaya sessions every Friday.
TM
I’m imagining that there might be someone listening that doesn’t know any of the Sanskrit terms. So that’s why it might just stop you every now and again and let you define some of the words. So if someone’s listening, that’s like a brand new listener slash just coming into the yoga fold. There’s a lot of Sanskrit terms that once you start to learn them, it gets easier and easier. Once you learn one, you learn another and before you know it, you can listen to these really in depth conversations about the yoga history and philosophy and know exactly what’s going on. But in the beginning, it’s really common to feel like a “fish out of water,” or have no idea what they’re talking about. So on that note, can you define what svadhyaya is to keep everyone up to speed?
NM
Yes and once you get to actually work with those terms, it becomes kind of a second nature. And you don’t think that yes, there are people who still haven’t gotten there. So apologies again. So the idea is the concept of studying. So it could be defined as a studying about the self. That’s the obtaining of self knowledge through a variety of practices. But it is it does become by itself a practice. It could be even a spiritual practice. So you get to define it as for example, spending time with the sacred texts. So you sit down and you study, you read the text from the Upanishads, or from the later Puranas, or you open Patanjali yoga sutras and this is your weekend. Yeah, this is your weekend. What are you doing? I’m doing yoga psychology, how I’m just staring at Patanjali, sutra number, whatever. Trying to figure it out to study is that concept of the bhaktis. For the wisdom, another, I’m drawing attention. I’m throwing another Sanskrit word in Sangha, which means pretty much your social group. Yeah. What is your community? Yeah, let’s hang together with like minded people. Yep. And do our thing. What is our thing? We’re reading the scriptures. Yeah. Or in my case, I’m listening to someone much more knowledgeable. And they read it. And he’s reading the scriptures. He’s commenting on them, we get to ask questions.
TM
Was that the difference? So actually, let me back up a little bit. Is that something that anyone listening can go to Edwin Bryant’s
Website. And by the way, at the end of the podcast, I will be happy to provide you with all the resources and links and the names that I’m throwing in here. So you can post it through your audience and I’ll be so happy for people actually go there and look up at this stuff because there’s so much available in the way of information out there that we just are not aware of. Yeah. So EdwinBryant.org, very cool website. It’s connected to the Rutgers University. As a matter of fact, the last study I did with him was on the Bhagavad Gita. I think it was… I forgot which ones, my memories also don’ serve me always. But starting four weeks from now, we are he’s doing a six week or an eight week course on Bhagavata Purana. He loves the back story. So that kind of yoga, devotional yoga, the yoga of love there. There’s a lot of kindness and love and compassion about this concept. I just was even listening to someone who has devoted pretty much his life and passion to that. Yeah, I think it’s amazing.
TM
It is amazing.
NM
It obviously takes cultivating it over a long period of time. Little by little before you know it, you understand these stories a little better. It makes sense. And that’s cool.
TM
So it sounds like the interaction process with that particular training method you enjoyed. Was that the first way you started listening to his philosophy teachings not interactive? And then that the svadhyaya ones was where you could maybe type in questions into the chat box. Is that how that was going down?
NM
Yeah. So you can do either, you can buy the pre recorded lectures, the lectures for students. We are a neutral audience, we have no access to the direct communication, we watch the recordings. But because the content is all out there, you can watch it at any time you want to watch it. The Friday sessions are live sessions, but he also records them and then post them online. So if you miss a Friday because you really want to go for that happy hour Friday, then you can watch it or listen to it the next day.
Listen to the full episode with Nona for free on our podcast site here.
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