I am so delighted to bring Robin Martin on the podcast. During this conversation we discuss topics like:
How she got into yoga.
The decision to become a yoga teacher.
Balancing social media pressure and social media stardom.
Passive flexibility vs active mobility.
Advice for budding yoga teachers.
About Robin I’m Robin Martin, a certified yoga teacher based in Seattle, WA, USA. My practice and my teaching are ever evolving. While vinyasa yoga is my favorite style of yoga to both practice and teach, I have studied many different methods of yoga with numerous master teachers and appreciate the beauty in all styles. I earned my 200 Yoga Alliance certification through Tiffany Cruikshank of Yoga Medicine. Additionally, I have 4 advanced training certifications in shoulder, hip, spine and myofascial release through Yoga Medicine. I am also certified to teach paddleboard yoga.
Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. I’m so excited to have the opportunity to interview Robin Martin. Robin Martin is a yoga teacher that lives in Seattle, Washington. She teaches locally in studios around where she lives. She teaches on Zoom and she also leads international retreats where you can join her. One of them’s coming up in Greece actually. Check her out on her website, RobinMartinyoga.com. And also follow her on Instagram at @RobinMartinyoga. All right, let’s begin. I’m so excited to have this opportunity to speak with Robin Martin and Robin, how are you? How are you doing today?
Robin Martin
I’m doing well. Thanks so much for having me on your pod…..on your Toddcast, if you will.
Todd Mclaughlin
Thank you so much. My wife, when I said I was gonna do a podcast, said you have to do a Toddcast. I couldn’t argue with her. So thank you.
Robin Martin
It’s very cute.
Todd Mclaughlin
Thank you. I appreciate that. And where are you joining us from Robin?
Robin Martin
Seattle, Washington. Northwest Coast USA.
Todd Mclaughlin
Are you born and raised there?
Robin Martin
I actually am. I’m one of the few natives I think of the area. I was born in Seattle. I grew up in Olympia, which is the state capitol. It’s about 90 minutes south of the city. Both of my parents grew up in the city. But my dad got a job for the State Department of Fisheries. And that was located in the Capitol area. So that’s where I grew up. And then I headed right back to Seattle. I went to University of Washington, and I’ve stayed in the area ever since. I travel a lot. I travel all over the world. But Seattle is home.
Todd Mclaughlin
Wonderful. Are you in downtown Seattle?
Robin Martin
Actually, no, I’m on the east side. I did live in the city. For a while after college, I lived on an area called Queen Anne, which is right in the city. And that’s actually where my mom grew up. And then I moved to the east side, which is for those who know the area Bellevue, Washington. It’s on the east side of Lake Washington.
Todd Mclaughlin
Nice.
Robin Martin
I am about 30 minutes outside of the city.
Todd Mclaughlin
Awesome. I’ve never been but my sister used to live there. And she loved it and just always raved about it. I wish I had gone and visited her while she was there.
Robin Martin
Where was she living when she was there?
Todd Mclaughlin
Oh, that’s a great question. You stumped me. I don’t remember the suburb they were in to be honest.
Robin Martin
Yeah. I am always curious.
Todd Mclaughlin
That’s cool. Do you teach yoga in a studio? Or are you teaching more on a retreat basis?
Robin Martin
Oh, I teach all of it. And everywhere. I teach retreats, I teach in several studios in the city, and I teach at home. I have regular zoom classes leftover from the COVID era when they all kind of started but I have a relationship with iHeartMedia. So I teach for those guys a couple days a week and then I have privates that actually come to my home. So yeah, it’s a pretty full and and interesting schedule. And I really like it because it’s such a variety of places, temperatures, vibes, you know, all of that. And traveling, I have taught at lots of festivals and workshops around. I taught in Saudi Arabia in October of this past year. It was a wonderful opportunity to teach at an event that they were hosting there. The Crown Prince was hosting. So yeah, I have a very colorful teaching history and hopefully going forward, it will continue.
Todd Mclaughlin
Yes, that’s amazing how many years have you been teaching?
Robin Martin
I’ve been teaching for about 12 years I think.
Todd Mclaughlin
Cool. Yeah. And how about practicing? When did you start practicing?
Robin Martin
May of the year 2000? So it’ll be it’ll be 23 years in May. Yeah. Hard to believe considering I’m only 24 years old. (laughter)
Todd Mclaughlin
Yes. A miracle. That is incredible, right?
Robin Martin
My mother practiced yoga when she was pregnant with me in utero.
Todd Mclaughlin
Yes.
Robin Martin
Don’t you love that one? That’s like the best yoga answer.
Todd Mclaughlin
Right. I’ve been practicing since in utero. Have you heard the theory that while in utero, we practice every yoga pose that’s ever been created?
Robin Martin
I’ve never heard that. No,
Todd Mclaughlin
I’ve heard someone say that. This idea that 84 number and that there’s 84,000 different yoga poses or Shiva practiced something within the realm of 84 million yoga poses. And that in utero, we actually go through all of those positions before we actually come out. I don’t know how true that could be?
Robin Martin
And, you know, I mean, then as the baby is forming in the uterus, it is changing and moving around and right. Who knows? I don’t know.
Todd Mclaughlin
That’s a good point. I know. It’s kind of fun to think about.
Robin Martin
However, I do have to question that one. Because, like Padmasana for example, Lotus Pose would require a lot of maneuvering to get into. It’s the one where your heels are tucked up by the creases of your hips. So I don’t know. I can’t really imagine that.
Todd Mclaughlin
Yeah, yeah, I think it’s a myth. It’s a fun myth.
Robin Martin
Yeah, it’s interesting. I mean. They’re not gonna be grabbing their foot doing a Dancer Pose.
Todd Mclaughlin
Are you a mom?
Robin Martin
I am.
Todd Mclaughlin
How many children do you have?
Robin Martin
I have two.
Todd Mclaughlin
Nice, awesome. Do you mind me asking how old they are?
Robin Martin
No, I don’t. They’re 16 and 18.
Todd Mclaughlin
Oh, cool. I have a 16 year old and a nine year old.
Robin Martin
Okay.
Todd Mclaughlin
Yeah, is your 16 year old driving?
Robin Martin
Well, I have two daughters. And, and it’s funny, they just didn’t seem to be in any rush to get their driver’s licenses. My 18 year old finally got hers at some point. But she also had the whole issue where she did her driving school during COVID. And so she had to wait till the drivers were available to do her drives. And they were very backlogged. And my younger one is kind of in the same situation, though, she was done with her whole driving school while still 15 And she’s just anxiously waiting to do her drives and she wants to get a driver’s license. My older one just didn’t seem to be in any hurry. And same with my nephew. I was just reading an article just today, oddly about how how kids today don’t have this sense of urgency or drive. I mean, I couldn’t get mine fast enough. I mean, it was like, the day I turned 16 I think was at the DMV getting my driver’s license.
Todd Mclaughlin
100% What would you, if you had to take a stab in the dark, the reason is that kids at age 16 aren’t chomping at the bit the way we were?
Robin Martin
You know, well, I don’t know. I mean, it doesn’t make any sense to me. I know that I lived a bit out in the sticks. And for me, it was freedom to be able to drive. When my daughter and her closest friend drives drives her around so maybe that’s the reason why she’s not in such a hurry. It’s easier to get around now. They can Uber. They’re just closer to everything than I was to anything where I grew up. I can’t really explain it because I think it’s crazy.
Todd Mclaughlin
I hear you. I kind of pushed my son. I was like, when you are 15 you are getting your learner’s on the day. Because you’re gonna want your license when you’re 16. Let’s go.
Robin Martin
Does he have his license?
Todd Mclaughlin
He does. Yeah, he’s cruising. So far. So good. Knock on wood.
Robin Martin
When did he turn 16?
Todd Mclaughlin
July 11. So he’s been going now like eight months already. Yeah.
Robin Martin
Yeah, mine just turned 16 last month, but she’s just waiting to do the drives with the driving school. When when I was 16 we had driver’s ed in high school. I think I had to pay extra for it. But it was like it was something you could do. Right, and like teachers volunteered to do the drives with the students. It’s different.
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Check out the new podcast with Caitlyn Burkhardt titled Transformational Breathwork. During this podcast we discuss topics like:
How she became inspired to practice transformational breathwork?
The pros and cons of Ayahuasca and breathwork.
What is transformational breathing and how does it work?
How breathwork helps with depression and anxiety.
The four pillars of trauma release.
Nutrition training and training.
Caitlyn has worked in the wellness industry for over 15 years and embodies whole health by nourishing her mind, body, and spirit using all of the same tools that she offers her clients. She is a Transformational Breathwork Facilitator, Polarity Therapist/energy medicine provider, massage therapist, and functional mobility coach. By offering these well rounded services, she seeks to empower people through knowledge, self discovery, and movement so that they may better care for their bodies and love themselves just as they are.
Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. My name is Todd McLaughlin. And I have the pleasure of bringing Caitlyn Burkhardt on to the channel today. And so check Caitlyn out at her website, bodacitysportandsoul.com. And also her instagram name is at @bodacity_ sportandsoul. She’s going to be teaching a Transformational Breathwork workshop here on Sunday, March 5, just two days from now. If you’re listening to this after March 5th, don’t worry, I’m sure we’ll be having her back. You can join in via zoom no matter where you are. It’s gonna be 1:30pm Eastern. We cover all this to throughout the conversation. So on that note, I’m so excited to have you here. Caitlyn, how are you doing?
Caitlyn Burkhardt
I’m so excited to be here. Thank you for having me.
Todd McLaughlin
You’re welcome. You know, today is this podcast release and in just two days on Sunday, March 5 at 1:30pm Eastern, you’re going to be offering a Transformational Breathwork workshop here at our yoga studio. But it’s also going to be live streamed so that some anyone can join anywhere in the world. So I’m excited to have you on the podcast today just to introduce our listeners to you and to you our listeners and learn more about what you’re interested in. So I’m curious, can you first of all, tell me how you got inspired to practice transformational breathwork and or study transformational breathwork?
Caitlyn Burkhardt
Sure. In a nutshell, I basically was suffering from really chronic suicidal depression and nothing worked. I had been in therapy for like 25 plus years, I’ve been on and off medication. And I had always taken really good care of myself like physically. And so when I started to feel suicidal and sad again last year, I was like, “This just doesn’t make any sense.” Like I shouldn’t be feeling indifferent about living. And so I tried, I decided to do something different. And I booked a retreat down in Costa Rica, where I did ayahuasca, but they also offered us two breathwork journeys on the first day and the last day. And so that was my first experience with Breathwork. And the second like that, after that first class, I was so blown away with the results of it. I was like, I have to learn how to do this to give this to my clients.
Todd McLaughlin
Nice. Amazing. Can you explain? There’s a lot there.
Let me let me first dig back a little bit on into at what point in your life was depression something that was apparent that you had? Like, are we going back to high school days? Are we going back to like, eight years old? When do you remember having that recognition that I have something that I’m trying to deal with here? That’s serious?
Caitlyn Burkhardt
Yeah. Yeah. It started well, it started with eating disorders when I was like around 11. And then my behavior started to also spiral. But the depression probably reached its peak in high school, and I was hospitalized for that and my eating disorders three times. During high school. I was put into foster care because my behavior was so uncontrollable that my parents were like, we can’t keep her home. I was engaging in very risky behaviors. I never did drugs, that wasn’t my thing. But I was like hitchhiking and hanging out with pretty bad people. And just putting myself in harm’s way, like pretty regularly. And so, um, depression and anxiety just became like, a part of my life forever. After that, I maintained therapy with two therapists. And it would kind of come and go, like, I would manage it and be like, Okay, I need to make an appointment with my therapist, and then it would just, but it was never like gone, it was always there. And as an adult, I have suffered from Adrenal Fatigue, which is basically when like, you have a nervous breakdown and your whole your nervous system gets so over fried and overworked that your body kind of starts to shut down. Yeah. And I just decided back in 2020, to like, the everything I’ve tried so far, isn’t working, like why don’t I feel better yet. So going to that retreat in Costa Rica is a place called Arrhythmia. It’s a medically licensed retreat, and they actually code a lot of data on everybody that goes there. And one of the most interesting facts they told us is that they turn away 22 people a day from doing Ayahuasca journeys, which is a pretty hardcore psychedelic plant medicine. Yeah. So they have to turn away people daily from there, for whatever reason, medical or whatever. And those people, they gave them five nights of Breathwork instead, and all of them have the same exact outcomes and comparable experience that we all had taking the Ayahuasca. Yeah, it’s powerful. And I can attest to that. Yeah.
Todd McLaughlin
So you had the opportunity to participate in an Ayahuasca ceremony as well? When you were not under the influence of the Ayahuasca you also underwent these breathwork sessions? And then if you were to make a comparison of the experiences from each, what were the pros and cons?
Caitlyn Burkhardt
So the way that plant medicine and breath work, the way that they work on your brain is actually very similar. Because there’s basically you have your amygdala, which is like your fear center of your brain that holds a lot of your emotions. And then you have your logical center or prefrontal cortex. And normally, they’re not talking to each other. They’re just like this one, the fear, one is getting information first. And then this one, the logical one gets information second. And when you’re doing ayahuasca, or plant medicine, or breathwork, what happens is those two parts finally converge. And so you’re kind of able to have a conversation with parts of yourself, like as a third party, so you can go back into a moment in your childhood and go, Oh, I didn’t have the capacity to handle this as a child because I wasn’t in control. But now I’m an adult, and I can see how this story no longer serves me. I’m gonna let that go right now. Yeah. And the other thing about plant medicine and breathwork, the way that they’re similar is they’re deeply somatic. So it’s a very visceral experience with both of them. However, with Ayahuasca, you’d purge a lot differently, like there’s vomiting, there’s, there’s pooping, and you’re stuck. So when things start to get too heavy, you’re stuck on that trip for like, who knows on 6,10, or 12 hours sometimes. And with breathwork, you are much more in the driver’s seat, because you can just switch up your breathing. And you can take a break if you need to, and then go back into it when you’re ready.
Todd McLaughlin
Are you open to speak about what your Ayahuasca experience was like?
Caitlyn Burkhardt
Sure. I did four of them. While we started with breathwork on the first night, and I didn’t know it at the time, but I had three rheumatoid arthritis flare ups in my wrist, hip and shoulder. It was to the point where I was limping. I couldn’t lift my arm up and I was kind of concerned. I’m like, how am I going to be able to do anything this week? How will I do yoga? And after that first breathwork class, all three of my flares were pretty much gone. And I was able then they were gone completely the next morning. So the next morning I was fully functional able to do yoga. It was like they never happened.
Todd McLaughlin
Amazing. That’s cool.
Caitlyn Burkhardt
Yeah, yeah. Because what breathwork does is it makes you so alkaline, temporarily that all of your cells become extra oxygenated. And disease really can’t live in an alkaline environment. Yeah. So it’s like an incredible anti inflammatory. Nice. And then on my Ayahuasca journeys, what I discovered was, I mean, I just covered a lot of stuff, but like the first place we went to was back into the womb. And I learned that a lot of my depression wasn’t in fact, mine. It had been passed down to me, generationally through the womb. Yes. And so I was able to purge that and get that out. But the thing that a lot of people often mistake with things like Ayahuasca is that it’s gonna make all of your problems go away. And it doesn’t do that, because my life, in fact, completely fell apart in the next three months after returning home from that retreat.
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I am so excited to share this podcast with you. ⭐️ Meet the amazing TARA STILES!⭐️
Tara Stiles is the co-founder of Strala Yoga, best-selling author, and well-being expert. Tara revolutionized yoga for millions, transforming a practice so often seen as dogmatic, and guru-based, into an everyday movement that supports ease and well-being.
Strala Yoga is practiced in more than 100 countries, thousands of Guides lead Strala classes around the globe, and Tara shares yoga with thousands of people on the Strala Yoga app. She has been profiled by The New York Times, Times of India, The Times (UK), and featured in most major national and international magazines.
Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. So happy you are here. My goal with this channel is to bring inspirational speakers to the mic in the field of yoga, massage bodywork and beyond. Follow us @nativeyoga, and check us out at nativeyogacenter.com. All right, let’s begin.
Well, yeah, I’m so excited to have Tara Stiles joining me today on the podcast. Tara, thank you so much. How are you?
Tara Stiles
I’m doing good. Thanks so much for having me. I’m excited to chat with you too. Thank you.
Todd McLaughlin
So for those of you that listened to the podcast with Yulady Saluti, she spoke so highly of Tara, that it got me excited to reach out to you Tara and get a chance to speak with you. So thank you for being so gracious in accepting my invitation. I know you have a busy schedule. Are you in New York City currently?
Tara Stiles
Oh, I’m not actually I just got back from Singapore yesterday. But we’re in Illinois. We got this place in Illinois a couple of years ago to be close to family and kind of support everyone here. So we’ll be going to New York in the fall for Daisy’s school. But we’ve been here for a couple of years, kind of based out of hometown America. So that’s been really pretty sweet. Actually.
Todd McLaughlin
Wonderful. Not in Chicago? It sounds more like in a rural setting.
Tara Stiles
Yeah, you got it because you know America. A lot of friends in Europe are like, Oh, Illinois, Chicago. But yeah, we’re pretty far south. So the weather is actually a little bit warmer here than in Chicago. But yeah, all my family’s here. They’re farmers and hanging around the place. So it’s been nice to catch up with everybody and just be together.
Todd McLaughlin
That’s so cool. Is that the town that you grew up in?
Tara Stiles
I didn’t. I grew up a little bit closer to Chicago, but everybody is from here. So my parents got a place down here a few years ago. So everybody’s kind of in the same location. So it’s nice to just be around for sure.
Todd McLaughlin
I hear you, that’s cool. And especially having farm life is pretty amazing. Do they have like a big farm? Are they more like cottage farmers? Do they have chickens and veggies? Are they more of like big time farmers?
Tara Stiles
I mean, I don’t know how big time but kind of all of it. My aunts and all my relatives have gardens and things like that. So come summertime and late fall, you’ve got everything and they can at all for the winter.
Todd McLaughlin
That’s awesome!
Tara Stiles
Yeah, they do the veggies for the personal consuming. And then they do corn and wheat and things like that. I remember a few years ago asking my cousin who’s a few years older than me, she does a lot of the big kind of combining and stuff, and we get to ride along. But I asked her where the corn goes, you know, after reading Michael Pollan’s book and all of these kinds of things. I know there’s a lot of the problems with America, but they found a way to sell their corn for hard plastics and windshields. So I thought that was kind of cool. Just everybody’s trying to do better.
Todd McLaughlin
Yeah, I hear you, that’s amazing. Are you an organic gardener? Or a do you have time for a garden? Or do you just get to benefit from your family’s efforts?
Tara Stiles
To be honest, I would love to. But you know, we’re not here in the summers all the time. I’d love to actually do a greenhouse. I’ve seen that you can kind of buy these pop up greenhouses. They’re becoming more easy and economical and fun. You kind of pop that up in your yard now and just buy these things for a few 100 bucks. And maybe I’ll pop one of those up at some point. You know, see if I can get that going.
Todd McLaughlin
Very cool. What was it like over, you said, Singapore?
Tara Stiles
Yeah, Singapore.
Todd McLaughlin
How was Singapore?
Tara Stiles
Yeah, it was great. This festival called Glow Festival brought me out for about a week and I got to lead classes there, which was really fun. And I’ve been to Singapore a few times. So first of all, it was really fun just to catch up with old friends and new friends and just be back in person with people you know, I’m just one of the millions that are so grateful to just be together with people and and do yoga and they have a great festival and I got to kind of feel like that studio affect again. It was a couple of classes a day and there was other teachers
and other experiences and lots of people. So it was just really nice to hang around and practice and just talk with people and hug people and things like that.
Todd McLaughlin
That sounds really cool. Was it structured sort of like a Yoga Journal type conference where you have a couple of teachers were teaching in different rooms at the same time, or was it one room and then you would take turns teaching with the other teachers?
Tara Stiles
Yeah, it was just one big room and they did this cool thing. It was inside. And they had these large kind of interactive screens that were like almost like a jungle. So they did this really neat tech thing. And at first, I thought everybody would be overwhelmed seeing these screens, but the room was really humongous. So kind of in the distance, you’d see an elephant kind of walking by and things like that. So it was pretty unique and, and fun to just hang around and be together with people for sure.
Todd McLaughlin
Cool. When you had a chance to teach, what type of class did you teach? Did you do like a Vinyasa flow, or what is on the forefront of your specialty these days?
Tara Stiles
Sure, I guess that I’ve always loved to lead. It was a really cool opportunity to have so many different time different time slots, you know, it’s kind of like a regular studio. And they wanted a variety of classes. So some a bit more energetic, some more gentle, some kind of in between. And everything that I love to lead is based in easygoing movement, breath, body connection, this kind of
almost East Asian influence in the yoga, but it doesn’t need to come across that way so much. But really, the idea of moving well comes from Tai Chi and shiatsu and things like that. But everybody usually says, Oh, that yoga class felt really nice. Or I didn’t know I could do something so challenging without forcing myself or It felt nice to move from my center and harmony. So I usually don’t, especially in just an open class, say, okay, now we’re going to be doing tai chi and shiatsu and learning all of these things. I just think that’s, you know, kind of too much located in the mind. So we just move and breathe and, and feel good. In that way.
Todd McLaughlin
That’s really cool. What is your timeline in terms of how long have you been practicing? And how long have you been teaching?
Tara Stiles
Oh, gosh, well, I think like a lot of people’s yoga story, I got really lucky, finding yoga was in my ballet program growing up. So I was thinking I was going to be a contemporary dancer. That was my whole life’s dream. And my ballet teacher brought yoga into our program, I guess I was 17 or 18. And instantly, just like everybody else, felt like this is amazing. And, and then my second thought was, why don’t all my friends do this? Why, you know, I felt like my family, had these values had these philosophical ideas about life. But we weren’t doing this physical practice that I felt could just kind of crack everything open and really guide life. So I just wanted to learn more and share this kind of movement all at the same time. So that kind of just kicked me off and learning more about it. And then at first kind of casually sharing what I was learning with people. And then more and more things led me to doing that with more of my time. So yeah, it’s the beginning of my life, my teenage life
years ago.
Todd McLaughlin
That’s amazing. Can you give me a timeline view of an order of different modalities that you then started to pursue and study?
Tara Stiles
Sure, yeah. Yoga was the first big practice for sure. And then I got to New York pretty shortly after to dance and do other things. But I was always kind of asking people, Hey, do you do yoga? Where do you do yoga, if you don’t do yoga, let’s do a little bit together….. this kind of a thing. And I think because New York has everything I was starting to find shiatsu places, and some ayurvedic practitioners, and all of these kind of, you know, modalities one by one. And I think like a lot of people who have started to learn one and then learn the others, you wonder, okay, are these connected? How are they connected? They don’t appear to be in isolation from each other. How can we, or how can I live in more harmony with myself and not just practice to be more knowledgeable about these modalities, but to integrate them actually in my life and to feel better and live a good life of purpose? And how can I start to communicate that in a sensible way to other people if that starts to make sense to me?
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About Melissa Influenced in my early yoga days by concepts of Iyengar and Ashtanga lineages, Vipassana meditation, and the study of structural bodywork, my yoga practice was cemented through a dedication to the Ashtanga system which since 2003, has taken me on journeys around the world to study with senior teachers. I am forever grateful to my teachers Victoria Laws, Annie Pace, R. Sharath Jois, Ruth Harting, Lee Joseph, Christopher Beaver, Dawn Eagle Woman, and the teachings of S.N. Goenka among others for some of most my profound learning journeys. I consider my path as a mother to my daughter and puppy dog to be my greatest teacher, and greatest gift, yet. I aspire to meet my students where they are in the support of healing and growth. I am in the process of obtaining my E-500 RYT status to reflect my years of study and teaching since my initial certification with Yoga Alliance in 2011. I look forward to seeing you on the mat!
Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. I’m really pleased to bring to the channel today, Melissa Friedman. Melissa is a mom. She is an Ashtanga yoga teacher. She also teaches yoga therapeutics. She is an artist, and she is a naturalist. And you can find her on Instagram @nectarofthebee. Which she also has another Instagram handle called @themedicinebeads, where she showcases her artwork, which can also be found on Etsy. If you have any questions reach out to her. And so I’m so happy that you are here. Thank you so much for your support. Your feedback is so motivational to me, I can’t tell you how much I appreciate it. So, on that note, let’s just go ahead and get started here. I’m so excited to have Melissa Friedman here today. And Melissa, you’re joining us from Telluride Telluride, Colorado. Is that correct?
Melissa Friedman
Yes.
Todd McLaughlin
Well, thank you so much for joining me. I have been watching you post about teaching primary series in Colorado. And so I’m really excited to ask you questions about yoga and all of those great things. I also just want to make mention that people can find we can find you on Instagram, and you have a handle called at @nectarofthebee and also at @themedicinebeads. And so I’m curious if you can first explain what the @nectarofthebee site is?
Melissa Friedman
So that’s my paintings. I’m a painter. And yeah, it’s so I had a little yoga studio a few years ago that I actually turned into a little art gallery at one point. And the art gallery was called Nectar Arts. So my name Melissa means honeybee and I’ve always had an affinity to honeybees. So a lot of the names of my things have centered around bees and nectar and so @nectarofthebees is my Instagram for my for my paintings for my artwork.
Todd McLaughlin
Cool. Did you own a yoga studio in Telluride?
Melissa Friedman
Yep, it was just a tiny little space. And I originally had opened it to do yoga therapy and just one on one work with people. And then I had other teachers using it and teaching really small classes for a while.
Todd McLaughlin
What time frame was that during?
Melissa Friedman
Um, gosh, that’s a good question.
Todd McLaughlin
It’s it’s 2023 right now. I’m kidding.
Melissa Friedman
I’m trying to think…. so it was a space I had for body work. I was a body worker for a long time I had a studio and this little space opened up right next to it in the same building. And I just kind of jumped on it and because I needed a place to do my yoga therapy and I had a space for it, but it wasn’t quite big enough. So I want to say it’s 2012. Yeah, something that too until I went on maternity leave in 2019 In so yeah.
Todd McLaughlin
And so I’m curious what came first bodywork or yoga practice?
Melissa Friedman
Um. bodywork came first. I mean I had started exploring yoga before that for sure. I probably got into meditation first when I was just like 14 years old or something like that. And so I started exploring Yoga I would say in college for a little bit. And then I think the bodywork, my interest in bodywork kind of led me into a deeper interest in yoga and just the body in general. So, yeah, I became a body worker before a yoga teacher before I was like crazy passionate about yoga. Yeah.
Todd McLaughlin
Where did you grow up?
Melissa Friedman
I grew up outside of Boston.
Todd McLaughlin
How did you find yourself landing in Telluride?
Melissa Friedman
Um, my sister, I have two older sisters, and one of my sisters moved here first. And I came to visit her and just fell in love with this area.
Todd McLaughlin
So that’s cool.
Where did you go to bodywork school.
Melissa Friedman
I went to a school called Pacific College of Bodywork and Awareness. It was in Kauai.
Have heard of that?
Todd McLaughlin
Yeah.
Melissa Friedman
The founder, Lee Joseph. He passed away a couple of years ago, a few years ago now. But he was just an amazing human being. And that was kind of where my journey started with it. And it just, you know, evolved from there
Todd McLaughlin
Was that in Hanalei, Kauai?
Melissa Friedman
His school at the time? I’m not sure if it stayed there after years after I left. It was. Have you been to Hawaii?
Todd McLaughlin
I have not been to Kauai. I’ve always wanted to go to Kauai because it’s a pretty epic surf destination.
Melissa Friedman
It was kind of in between towns. So I don’t know technically where it was. It was like in between Kappa and this the other small town. I can’t think of what it’s called right now. But it was just like it was built down a long winding road. And he had this beautiful property. And so the school was a separate building on his property.
Todd McLaughlin
Had you known that you wanted to get licensed as a massage therapist or certified and then consciously went to Kauai to study there or were you just hanging out on Kauai and realized this is what you wanted to do?
Melissa Friedman
Actually, I was living here and started looking into massage schools and I had heard about Kauai and that I had to go there. I asked around and another therapist here said oh my goodness, you’ve got to check out my teacher that I studied with and I looked at several schools and the second I had a phone conversation with Lee Joseph I just knew that he was my teacher.
Todd McLaughlin
Were the fundamentals in Swedish massage or was was he trained in everything and blended everything into the training?
Melissa Friedman
I would say that the fundamentals were more Rolfing based structural bodywork and he also part of the program was hypnotherapy. So a lot of what we did was very psychosomatic centered. You know, getting into the body and finding what was stored there emotionally and really getting to the root of why we get stuck.
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Originally from Montreal, Quebec, and currently living in Vero Beach, Florida. Veronique studied theatre at Russell Sage College and discovered yoga as a way to calm her mind and feel good. With over 500 hours of training as a RYT (Registered Yoga Teacher with Yoga Alliance), she is inspired off the mat to create unique and creative yoga classes. Classes are tailored based on the setting, students, and inspirational themes. Her goal is to empower and inspire her students to shine their light. She offers precise alignment cues, as well as modifications for students who are healing an injury or expressing beginner to advanced levels of practice. When guiding, she uses descriptive words and tune in to when to be silent, so that each student can simply breathe.
Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. I’m so excited to introduce to you Veronique Ory. She has a website yogawithveronique.com. She has an Instagram @VeronicaOry. All of those links are in the description below. She has a brand new book Shine On and Off the Mat, which we speak about during this podcast. Also, she has a virtual program called Coming Home. And she’s offering a yoga retreat in June down in Costa Rica. That sounds amazing. So I really enjoyed speaking with Veronique. She’s so nice. I loved it. I can’t wait for you to hear it. Let’s begin.
I’m so happy to have Veronique Ory here today. How are you?
Veronique Ory
I’m so well. How are you, Todd?
Todd McLaughlin
I’m doing really well. Thank you so much for joining me today on our podcast. I really appreciate it.
Veronique Ory
Thank you for having me.
Todd McLaughlin
I can hear some birds in the background. I can see you and I can see your house behind you…. but what are you looking at?
Veronique Ory
Yes, I’m facing this beautiful preserve. There’s a giant oak tree right in front of me that is protecting me with a beautiful orchid that’s in bloom attached to the side of it. And there’s amazing Cardinals and mockingbirds and all the Florida wildlife that emerges from the trees from time to time. Squirrels and bunnies and sometimes bobcats and armadillos.
Todd McLaughlin
Yes. That’s cool. And I noticed your dog came up to you since we’ve been chatting. Is that your dog?
Veronique Ory
Yes, my Yogi pet Bowery. He likes to sit with me when I am in baddha konasana, butterfly pose. He thinks that is the perfect place to sit on my meditation cushion with me.
Todd McLaughlin
That’s great. You would have to pay someone to assist you like that normally, but it sounds like you have a full time personal assistant.
Veronique Ory
Yeah, yeah, we have a fine exchange going on.
Todd McLaughlin
Nice. I was really excited to see that you’re located in Vero Beach, Florida. We’re not far away from each other. There’s so much building and development going on around here that the wildlife is getting pushed out. To hear beautiful bird sounds like that I’d maybe think you are in Costa Rica or down in the Amazon or something. To hear that you’re right here in Florida and there’s so many birds in the background reminds me of how much natural beauty there is here in Florida. You’re originally from Canada, is that correct?
Veronique Ory
Yes, Montreal in Quebec.
Todd McLaughlin
How did you make your way to Florida?
Veronique Ory
Oh, my so many different cities along the way. I was
In a theatre company called Athena theatre and was very much immersed in the arts, which then led me to New York City for nine years. When I was in the world of immersion and a vibrant and energetic feeling that was so alive with all the different languages and feeling so just lit up by culture and all that there is to explore I also was confronted with a lot of anxiety. And as I found yoga and was getting older and really was craving the house with the yard and a bit of sunshine boost. I’ve landed in Florida four years ago, just really wanting that upgrade and quality of life. I really feel that Vero Beach is just so peaceful. It’s such a quaint little beach town and I really love it here.
Todd McLaughlin
I love Vero! My son and I will go up there and go surfing. The waves are often a little bit better up there. Depending upon which angle the swell it can vary greatly in relation to here in Palm Beach County. I love taking a road trip to Vero. It always feels a little bit more like Old Florida to me when I go there.
Veronique Ory
Hmm, cool. Yeah, it’s, it’s a little tucked away. And it’s a little bit far from the major airports. So it isn’t so congested, like the major cities on the east coast of Florida in particular, I’ve noticed though people have started to fly down. The snowbirds are definitely here in full effect. This year I’ve been definitely feeling the difference for sure.
Todd McLaughlin
Big time. I mean, the weather here right now is so amazing. Like lately, the skies have been like crystal clear blue. And it’s like in the high 70s. It’s been absolutely amazing. So I agree the traffic is just so much more intense right now because of it.
Veronique Ory
Yeah. Yeah, there’s definitely a trend of wanting to embrace more sunshine. It definitely affects the way that you just stand and breathe and walk around. Yeah, I was marveling yesterday walking Bowery, like, there isn’t a single cloud in the sky. Am I living in a reality?
Todd McLaughlin
Was the weather absolutely amazing yesterday or what? I was like, Oh my gosh, I had that kind of moment, like, so nice. I agree. I agree. When did yoga come into the picture?
Veronique Ory
2012 is when it really landed. I had sort of nibbles over the years and I really came into it in 2012. At the sort of wake of Hurricane Sandy in New York City where all the subways closed down and we were just holed up in our apartment just waiting for the sign that it was safe to move around. And the yoga studio called the Yoga Room in Astoria and Queens opened up and my roommate Matt at the time said, “Do you want to go to this class?” And it was just sort of like this off handed…. Do you want to do this? And he probably could have said anything. And I would have been like, Yeah, let’s go. And it was one of those everything in life coming together kind of moments. That class rocked me to my core, it was so beautifully done. And one of those moments, you know, for anyone who’s landed into this sphere, it’s like you show up and you’re like, how did this teacher know exactly what I needed to hear at this precise moment, and I just signed up for a 30 day unlimited pass on the spot. And I just thought I want to feel like this all of my days. And I’ve been really into that rhythm ever since.
Todd McLaughlin
That’s cool. What type of practice was it?
Veronique Ory
It was a Vinyasa style class for the first 60 minutes and then the ending 30 minutes was restorative. And so we were just snuggled up with bolsters and blankets and just steeping in all of the movement that we moved through.
Todd McLaughlin
Very cool. Did you have like an emotional experience? Sometimes a lot of people will talk about the first time they go into Savasana after their first yoga class….. that they’ll have like a coming home experience and or feel their senses in a way that they’ve never felt? Can you explain a little bit more what you remember of that first practice?
Veronique Ory
Absolutely, I felt so much during that time because I was operating at such a high functioning, stress building rhythm. And I very much attribute myself lovingly as Type A, OCD and high achieving. I wanted to do all of the things and check off all of the tasks. And I think because I had been operating at that pace for so long, it wasn’t until I slowed down that I was able to objectively see how very much that this lifestyle isn’t healthy or sustainable in the long term at all. And I realized how much of those emotions I was storing in my body. And so much of what I’d call happiness, or my level of contentment was like so much in relationship to validation outside of myself, being in the entertainment industry. If I would receive praise in one moment I would be feeling jubilation. Then someone could give me shade and I would be wrecked. This could happen in like a 15 minute window where like I’m so ecstatic one moment, and then like bawling on the floor, in my kitchen like a puddle the next moment. And I think, you know, depending on any industry one is in, there could be that tendency you know. Like you’re seeking a raise, or you’re seeking a kind word from your boss, or whatever it is. And it’s like, when we’re constantly reaching for something outside of ourselves, we are really giving our light and our magic away. And also just like, playing with that area of where our own control habits reside. It’s really, really toxic, ultimately, in terms of finding that sense of peacefulness, and remembering what it is to actually be in this deep contentment. That is devoid of the exterior, which is, you know, so much easier said than done. But, you know, it was some of the things that started to kind of plant the seed in those regards of moving through these emotions. Unlocking so much stress and anxiety and also like, really noticing where the triggers show up. The triggers are like very at the surface when you’re living in an urban environment in particular, because you’re just like, wrestled, and sort of jostled, and with so much different energy all of the time that if you’re an empath, or you know, in tune with other people’s emotions even a little bit, you know, as human beings, we’re sponges, we tend to like pick up on the energy that we surround ourselves with. And so to be in that frequency for an extended period of time, the yoga practice was just like, so soothing. And it was just this amazing breath of fresh air. I could feel a resonant connection to the breath. I don’t know that I was breathing with any kind of awareness until then. And the breath part was actually also one of the main components that really awakened a lot of my personal yoga practice as well.
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I am pleased to present to you…….. YULADY SALUTI! It is with great pleasure I can bring to you yoga and running celebrity Yulady Saluti. Yulady is an inspiration and motivation to thousands of yoga practitioners and running enthusiasts. She is an Ostomate and Breast Cancer Survivor who has beaten the odds many times. During this podcast she shares her passion and enthusiasm for motivating the masses.
During this podcast she shares:
what got her started in yoga
the catalyst that got her started on her journey of healing and recovery
how she became addicted to drugs and found sobriety
getting past the fear of honestly telling her story
Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. I am so excited for today because it marks an anniversary. Today is episode number 100. Yes! I had the goal of getting here. And I’ve made it. I can’t believe it, and I remember after my first episode, which when I go back and listen to now I’m like, “Oh…. I’ve learned a little bit since then.” I remember thinking when I saw other podcasters that have 100 episodes and thinking, “oh my gosh,” I just gotta get started with one here. And then two, and then little by little, interview by interview, person by person here we are. It’s just been such an incredible experience for me. Every time I get a chance to interview somebody around the world who has passion for yoga and has learned something from their experience with yoga I get so inspired. I enjoy hearing their passion for bodywork and their ability to teach and to share. The stories that I’ve heard over these last 100 episodes, about overcoming challenge and the willpower that exists in us as human beings is phenomenal. The ability to jump hurdles and or to get knocked down and to come back up again and, just be here for each other and to listen and to foster open communication. For me, this is just an honor, a privilege, and I love it so much. Because of you and all of your feedback and all of your encouragement and support, we’re all here together still trucking along.
On that note, as a special guest for episode number 100. I am pleased to announce that today’s guest is you Yulady Saluti. There’s so much I could try to say to introduce you to you Yulady, but she’s going to tell you everything that you need to know. She’s incredible! She’s inspirational! And I love her passion and her honesty. So without hesitating. Let’s go ahead and begin…..
I’m so excited to have this opportunity to bring you Yulady Saluti to the podcast today. Yulady, how are you doing?
Yulady Saluti
I’m great. How are you? Nice to meet you.
Todd McLaughlin
I know, I’m so excited, because we tried to get this to happen for a little while now. So now that the moment is here, I’m just thankful. Thank you very much.
Yulady Saluti
No, thank you for being so understanding, of course, of course.
Todd McLaughlin
So I have a lot of questions for you. I’ve been following you on Instagram. And I find that you have a very inspirational message. And I guess to get started, the first thing I noticed on your Instagram, the very first thing you have written is Noli Stan, and so obviously that you’re your baby?
Yulady Saluti
Yes, that’s my granddaughter.
Todd McLaughlin
That’s your granddaughter! Okay. All right.
Yulady Saluti
So a little background on me. My husband and I have been together 20 years and we are a blended family. So when I met him, I had a daughter from a previous relationship. And he had three kids from a previous relationship. And then we have two together. So we’re like six altogether. And we’re a big family. So my my oldest, I call them all my kids. I hate this term stepchildren because I grew up with a stepdad myself and he hated when I called him stepdad. He said that and you know, eventually I was like, Yeah, I get it. I get it. So I call all of them my kids. So my older son Jerry got married during the pandemic to a lovely girl and they had a baby on last September. So I decided that I was going to turn my Instagram account into a Noli fanpage.
Yeah. She’s the best.
Todd McLaughlin
Can you share what it’s like to be a grandparent?
Yulady Saluti
Oh my god it is so amazing! I was just saying to my husband, because I was babysitting, how incredible this feeling is to be able to be with her. I babysat her for a few hours, all by myself. I just had her here it’s like, this cannot get any better than this. This also goes for people that have their own children. Like picture that feeling when you have your own baby and then magnified by like, 100. That’s the greatest feeling. And you just like I can’t believe I’m lucky enough to be part of like this. This baby is mine, like not mine. But like it’s it’s my baby. Because my grandkid is a different type of love than a child love. It’s like bigger. I don’t know if that makes it any justice. Does that give your question any justice?
Todd McLaughlin
Yeah, that’s a great explanation. It’s funny. I have a friend who was a grandpa and he used to always say, it’s double happiness. Double happiness because I’m so happy when they show up. And then when their parents come to pick them up on I’m even happier.
Yulady Saluti
You get you get to do all the hanging out and then I get to drive home and sleep all night.
Todd McLaughlin
Right, you get a full night’s sleep, and then have the joy the next day. Oh, that’s amazing. Yulady. That’s cool. Yeah, yeah, awesome. Well, you know, I mean, where do I even begin? How about can you talk about what got you started on the journey of yoga practice? I know you have a lot of talents. And I definitely want to go down the track of what you’re really passionate about right now as a runner. But I want to kind of start with what was your intro into yoga and how did your healing journey begin?
Yulady Saluti
Well, yoga is my, I guess, was my my number one passion. My first passion and probably will always be my number one passion. My husband and I would get out of work and our first thing was to get to our favorite yoga class, and it was this wonderful reward at the end of the day. And so, two weeks into it, I mean, no, two months into it, I got sick. I noticed that like, I just couldn’t handle any physical activity and not the heat, and the physical part of it. There was nothing like it and I was in and out of hospitals, and in a lot of pain. I mean, like maybe like 10 out of 10 pain in nobody could figure out what was going on. And I had to I have had a surgery. Two years prior to that and then another one a year later for these masses that they found in my colorectal area. So very high up into the rectum, like right where the colon the rectum meet. I didn’t have great health insurance. So I didn’t question anything. I said, Okay, let’s get a biopsy in. I went to get the biopsy. And that night, I got really I got really sick. And it got really, really infected. And I ended up with more pain and another surgery to fix it. And then another surgery and then that gave me like a year of relief. And that’s in that year is when I met my husband we met shortly after that we moved in together and then he and then that’s how I found yoga. So my yoga life took a pause for many years because I was sick for many years after that. And then I went to have children what happened in this part of my medical journey was I needed a colostomy bag, which is for those who don’t know what a colostomy bags is, they essentially pull your intestine out of your body and sew it to the outside of your stomach and you poop out of there. They cut the intestine out and they put it out so you don’t no longer poop out of your rectum you know your your don’t use that area anymore, you poop into a bag that you change all the time. Like a couple times a day if you need to. Yes. And I was very young I was in my early 20s, I was very uncomfortable. Having that, like, I didn’t want to share it with anybody and I kept it all very to myself. Many people that knew me, wouldn’t ever know that. I wouldn’t ever mention it. And I so that kept me from ever going back even when I started to feel better. Ever going back to a yoga class.
Todd McLaughlin
Do you feel like because of the fact that it would be noticeable through your outfit that that is why you didn’t want anyone to see you?
Yulady Saluti
Yeah. And also another thing, which I’m very comfortable with now, and it actually took me many years to get where I am was, when you have this, when you pass gas, you have no control over it, you know, because there’s no muscles holding. So it just comes in it makes the noise in same thing with poop it comes whenever you want to. So that always made me so uncomfortable. So to me that was like, “Oh my God.” Now it happens all the time and I’m with clients. And I’m like, “Oh, I’m sorry.” And it just we just laugh, you know? Yeah, yeah. So it took me a long time to get comfortable with it.
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Join my special guest, Michael Shea PhD, for a discussion titled Embodiment of the Senses Through Yoga & Meditation. During this conversation we discussed Michael’s new book titled, The Biodynamics of the Immune System: Balancing the Energies the of the Body with the Cosmos. You can preorder his new book on Amazon by clicking here.
Wow! I’m really excited to have Dr. Michael Shea again here in person at Native Yoga Center for today’s episode of Native Yoga Toddcast, which is titled Embodiment of the Senses Through Yoga and Meditation. Michael, how are you doing today?
Dr. Michael Shea
Well, it’s been a busy day because I spent the morning at the car dealership and looking at their giant aquarium waiting for the tires to be rotated and for an oil change to happen. So an entire morning at a car dealership gave me a really good opportunity to meditate on an aquarium.
Todd McLaughlin
Nice. Do you have any profound realizations in the process of staring at the fish?
Dr. Michael Shea
Always the profound realization is how wonderful space is, you know, when I get caught up and you know, not wanting to be where I’m at, at a car dealership, because I got better things to do, of just releasing my attention out into space. But in this case, it was the biggest aquarium I’ve ever seen. And just releasing my attention to the aquarium and then looking out into space as well.
Todd McLaughlin
That’s cool. You know, we have two really big announcements to share today. Number one, I’m so excited to have a copy of your brand new book called the Biodynamics of the Immune System: Balancing the Energies of the Body with the Cosmos. Whoa, that’s a lot.
Dr. Michael Shea
Yeah, he’s a big, thick steak if you’re a meat eater, but it’s also a big soy burger if you’re a vegetarian.
Todd McLaughlin
And so I’m really excited to have the chance to ask you some questions about your most recent publication. Also, you and I have created a course and today on the launch of this podcast are launching our course together called All Levels Yoga & Meditation Course. And so you know, I had a lot of fun filming this with you. And I’m excited to release it today. And it’s available on our platform nativeyogaonline.com. The link for that is in the description below for anyone listening would like to check it out. Michael, from us filming that course do you have any takeaways from the experience? What are you excited to share with people that are interested in taking that course.
Dr. Michael Shea
I think meditation in general, and yoga, is constantly evolving in our culture. And when you study yoga and meditation, because I’ve been studying it now for 45 years, something like that, is just realizing like it’s so highly nuanced. And the next teacher says, Well, have you tried this? And the next teacher well why don’t you try this to refine your practice? So there’s never really an end game. That’s the one thing I learned. But there’s a continual opening, you know, as long as you have that willingness to be open to a teacher and to a new class. And as I said, you know, earlier when we were just talking, before we started, I just like to stay with what I know versus what is trending and what’s current. I have to tell you just a short story. I’ve been studying all year with with a Lama from Tibetan medical background. But he was in Sikkim, and then in Bhutan in the summer, and he was broadcasting from there. And he was at a very high level. It’s called advisory on a tantric Buddhist conference in the capital city of Bhutan, in which all the heavy hitter Lamas from Tibet and that area of the world you know, we’re coming together for this conference, and the one thing he said is that because it was going on our planet these days, the veil of secrecy of all of these different meditation practices need to be lifted, and the secrecy needs to be taken away because we are in such an important time on this planet right now with the intensity of the polarization and duality. So, you know, one of the things I share in my book is, not necessarily sharing secrets, but sharing the techniques that can help. But I understand why some of that knowledge, some of the mystical knowledge, or the meditation knowledge, or yogic knowledge, in general, is secret. It’s just because teachers want to have you go through a progression. Because of your aptitude. Some students can’t go to the end game right away. They can’t, you know, go right out into space, you know, and stay grounded at the same time. So, at any rate, it’s exciting because I feel liberated in wanting to share more and more and that book is one vehicle of sharing more, in terms of what was formerly considered to be secret knowledge. And again, that veil has been lifted. I’ve never been good at holding secrets anyway, even my mother knew that.
Todd McLaughlin
There is a term in a book that you had given me a while back ago called the phenomenon of basic space. Can you explain that?
Dr. Michael Shea
Well, my teacher who was originally the Dalai Lama wanted all of his students to do Buddha scholarships. So I spent 10 years doing very intense Buddhist scholarship. And now I’ve even lost track of the question, explaining basic space and phenomenon. Yeah, see, I went into basic space just now.
Todd McLaughlin
I’ll pull you back in if you drift too far over there.
Dr. Michael Shea
I’ll thank you.
Todd McLaughlin
I’ll reel you in.
Dr. Michael Shea
Right, right. So it was because I want my answer to link to, you know, this discussion of, of yoga and meditation. And so as a scholar of Tibetan Buddhist literature, there’s really the two highest level people that you know, those are the writers you go for, in the Kyagu and the Nyingma, tradition, or sometimes it’s known as the Xhosa tradition. It is from the book The Precious Treasury of The Basic Space of Phenomena by Longchenpa. It’s also called Yoga. But he’s considered to be like the most incredible Lama that could give words to the ineffability of the infinite nature of our mind, and so forth, and all those things that we hear about and that we’re trying to achieve. And that’s one of his books. So that was recommended to me and I gave you a copy. And it basically explains the view of Tibetan Buddhism, before you get to meditation, it’s helpful to understand the view. And I think that’s also an important thing to understand about Buddhist meditation, you don’t just jump on a cushion and sit in cross legged position, and so forth. But it’s an understanding that there’s a view here, and the view is basically that all phenomena is infinitely equal. And we hear that as no self, you know, that we don’t have a solid self, and so forth, and that we’re all interconnected. And it’s described as being empty and other metaphors, you know, that are used, but he explains it the best. He explains it the best of how you rest into the element of space. And I’m talking about the element of space from Indo Tibetan point of view, you know, space, wind, fire, water, earth, and so forth. So how you rest your mind. That’s the sea, this is yoga and meditation, how do you rest your mind and body into the element of space where it all began?
Todd McLaughlin
So when you were talking about being at the Toyota dealership today, and staring at the fish tank, and being able to let your mind go into space, is there a way to explain a technique that allows one to achieve that release into space?
Dr. Michael Shea
Yeah, the basic technique is, well, again, you know, it’s relatively simple. And it’s one of these things it’s been secret for a while. It’s called looking into the wisdom of the universe, or looking into the center of the universe or looking into the center of space. All these are metaphors for the same thing, the infinite nature of the totality of life, and the universe. In general, so, but the technique is actually quite simple. And you know, you’re a yogi. And as a practicing yogi, I’m kind of a want to be yogi. I call myself a bogey, you know, kind of indulgent yogi. But the posture is always the first thing, you know, you said, You’ve got to embody your senses. And that means not labeling what you’re seeing, not labeling what you’re hearing, not labeling what you’re feeling, you come into a posture that allows you to sit still, and just be with your senses. Because you have to notice if you’re labeling a lot, oh, this is that, that is that, this is that. Labeling takes us into the head and out of our body and out of the experience of meditation and yoga.
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Bibi Lorenzetti is an inspiration to the Ashtanga Yoga community! During this podcast I had the pleasure of speaking with Bibi about her experience with mother hood and how her yoga practice is evolving because of it. Bibi is honest and real about the challenges and the joy that comes with parenting. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did.
Hello, I’m so happy you are here today. I have the pleasure of bringing Bibi Lorenzetti to the podcast. And Bibi is an Ashtanga Yoga teacher. She’s also a doula. And she has a website called bibilorenzetti.com. She also has her yoga studio website, which is https://www.newburghyogashala.com. And I’m going to put her Instagram link in the description as well check her out, I found her via Instagram, because I was super inspired by her post. And this conversation is so fun. She’s got a lot of great insights. The focus during this conversation is centered around motherhood and what it’s like to practice Ashtanga Yoga. Also to have a yoga practice before getting pregnant, having a child and after having a child. She offers a lot of great insight. So I’m so excited that I had this opportunity. And I’m also really happy that you are here. Alright, let’s begin.
Todd McLaughlin
I’m so excited to have the chance to talk with Bibi Lorenzetti. Bibi, thank you so much for joining me today. How are you doing?
Bibi Lorenzetti
I’m good. Thank you, Todd, for having me on the podcast. I’m happy to speak with you.
Todd McLaughlin
Oh, well, thank you so much. I know you have a busy life. So to carve out some time to do something like this, I realize is a very generous offer. So thank you. And can you help me since it’s my first time getting a chance to meet you and speak with you? Can you tell me where your first yoga class was?
Bibi Lorenzetti
My first yoga class. Yeah. I want to say Yoga to the People in New York City.
Todd McLaughlin
Cool. I’ve heard about that. I’ve never been but I’ve heard it was like a donation based yoga classes?
Bibi Lorenzetti
Yes. That recently had a whole scandal around it. But yes, that’s the core of it. Is that? Yes.
Todd McLaughlin
I didn’t know about the whole scandal part. But maybe maybe we’ll slide past that. Because there’s scandal everywhere. And I think the world is a better place if we stay on a positive track. Yeah. But I’m so curious. You’ve totally piqued my interest. Was it like a financial scandal or like a sex scandal?
Bibi Lorenzetti
Little both.
Todd McLaughlin
Okay. All right. That’s all we need to know. But I heard that they were like, really busy classes. It was a real happening.
Bibi Lorenzetti
Yeah. Yeah. It was the same way. It started in St. Mark’s and I actually did my first teacher training there in 2008. And then, they just it spread like wildfire. They had…. I don’t even know how many in the city in Manhattan and Brooklyn, and then Queens. Then just across the country.
Todd McLaughlin
Wow.
Bibi Lorenzetti
Yeah. It was donation based. Only cash in a box. And there were celebrities in there. It was like a mix of everybody. But yeah, so that’s where I started.
Todd McLaughlin
That’s cool. Do you remember what year that was?
Bibi Lorenzetti
Probably 2005.
Todd McLaughlin
Cool. And what was the feeling you had on your first class?
Bibi Lorenzetti
Well, it was a very distinct feeling of coming home. I still remember where I was in the room. I was on the right side next to this brick wall that had a belly bar on it where we would hang the mats after practice. And it was like the second row back. And the teacher was very young, Actually the teacher had this really nice kind of like dance music/melancholic, non vocal music. And I just remember being just like, taken into another dimension and really feeling myself in my body. Even though there was the music even though there were a million people in the class, even though the yoga there wasn’t yoga like Ashtanga Yoga. It definitely did the thing of bringing me home inside myself. After that day, I think I went like three or four times a day.
Todd McLaughlin
Wow.
Bibi Lorenzetti
Yeah. Because I was a waitress in the evening in a study theater. So anytime I had free, I was there because you know, it was donation based, so you could pay $1 and do yoga.
Todd McLaughlin
That’s cool. Yeah, so it was that feeling of coming home. Home to myself, not like in the studio just like inside myself.
Todd McLaughlin
I understand what you mean. Did you say you were studying theater? Had you had any other connection to any sort of mind body practices like dance? Were you an athlete as a child? What was your history with movement art?
Bibi Lorenzetti
Yes, I was a gymnast. For many years, I stopped when I was fourteen, I think no, maybe 12. Because I was doing a tick tock on the high beam and one of my hands slipped, and I hit my head. And my vertebras in my cervical spine went out. And I had really intense headaches anytime I went upside down after that. So I had a physical therapist telling me that I should stop inverting. And so that was it. When I really picked it up, it was yoga. Many years, you know, I waS 20 years old.
Todd McLaughlin
Nice. Had you been able to rehab the injury so that when you went into yoga, did the memory of this injury return?
Did that cause you to be cautious when you approached yoga practice?
Bibi Lorenzetti
I wish I could say yes to that, because I didn’t. Then it kicked me in the butt years later, when I was in Mysore and I learned the second series headstands. I think like the third year that I was doing them, something went out and I was in my car. My neck just went out and I couldn’t move. It was like this feeling of being paralyzed. Because when your neck, you know, when you have like a subluxation of your cervical spine, it’s fairly intense. So I was in a lot of pain that trip. And then I always managed to kind of work around it with chiropractic work. But now that I’ve had a child, I think the very long labor and having a peanut ball during my epidural time, really didn’t do a favor to my hip alignment. And so my neck has just been constantly going out of place ever since I’ve had my child.
Todd McLaughlin
I understand, not from the having a kid part obviously, but but from learning and practicing the headstands. Doing the second series and having major neck problems and going to a chiropractor and the chiropractor asking me well, what are you doing? Are you doing any sort of head standing and I was like, Oh my gosh, if I tell her what I’m actually doing, she’s going to think I’m insane. And then she said, you know, look, just stay off of that for a while. And I remember that was like an earth shattering moment for me because I thought, you know, but how is this going to look and what does this mean? And but lo and behold, I stopped doing them and my neck got better. So I’m with you.
Bibi Lorenzetti
Yes. Good point. Good point. It’s real. Oh my gosh, it’s still real.
Todd McLaughlin
I had come up against it a couple times today already. How about you?
Bibi Lorenzetti
Yeah, I can’t say I don’t come up with it every day.
I hear you. Yeah.
Todd McLaughlin
Can you help me fill in the picture of the transition from your first class? Yoga for the People to Mysore? I don’t know what year that was. Do you remember what year that was?
Bibi Lorenzetti
Yeah, that’s 2011.
Todd McLaughlin
What was the progression and/or transition from that first experience to going to Mysore?
Bibi Lorenzetti
So after Yoga to the People I left the United States for a little while. And then I came back. And I did the yoga teacher training at Yoga to the People. And then I started working there. And then I had an unfortunate situation with the owner, and I walked away. I didn’t react to his request the way he wanted me to. So I was the next day kicked out of the studio in a very not yogic or even human way. And I was very kind of shattered, because that was like my life. I was teaching there, you know, I was managing the studios, I was teaching maybe like three or four classes a day. It was just my whole life. And so I started looking for a place to go practice.
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I am happy to share this discussion I had with Tai Chi & Qi Gong teacher, Sufi Rubia. Rubia teaches a unique form of Tai Chi and we have the chance to share idea about the connections between the ancient practice of Qi Gong and Yoga. During this conversation she shares how she infuses Tai Chi movement into her daily living.
Hello, welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. Today I have a special guest named Sifu Rubia. And she is a Tai Chi & Qi Gong instructor. She also practices yoga. She’s based out of California. I recommend that you check out her website, taichiwellnwess.online. Check out her courses. She has Tai Chi courses, which are amazing, she gave me an opportunity to take her Tai Chi Fundamentals course of which I was able to participate and I enjoy immensely. Tai Chi is an incredible art form. I really think it goes well with yoga. She is also offering for those of you that would like to try a free course with her. There’s a promo code FREEQI. That’s for her course called Short QiGong Course. On that note, let’s go ahead and get started. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. I’m so delighted to have Sifu Rubia here with me today. Rubia, how are you doing?
Sifu Rubia
Hi, good. Good morning, or it’s afternoon for you. I’m well Todd, how are you?
Todd McLaughlin
I’m doing really well. I’m so excited to have a chance to speak with you. And I feel like I you said you just finished teaching a class. Is that true? Yeah, private class, private class. And you are a Tai Chi and Qi Gong practitioner and teacher?
Sifu Rubia
Correct.
Todd McLaughlin
Wonderful. Can you help me understand the difference between Tai Chi and Chi Gong?
Sifu Rubia
Oh, well, Tai Chi is the martial expression of your Qigong practice, essentially. So Chi Gong is, for your Yogi listeners, is the equivalent to prana and Gong simply means to work, to cultivate, to toil. So a chi gong practice is just that. So you’re working on your lifeforce, your vital energy, through specific movements. There are many different system. Qigong systems out there that target different things. And so that’s the cultivation of your of your prana. And then the Tai Chi is the martial expression of that cultivation. And that’s a simple way to understand the difference between the two.
Todd McLaughlin
When you say martial expression, meaning the actual physical movements.
Sifu Rubia
Yeah, correct. So Tai Chi is also known as the Grand Ultimate for martial artists. And usually a typical path to your Tai Chi is a kung fu practice. So people evolve into their Tai Chi, but every Tai Chi movement has a martial expression to it. I don’t typically teach martial expressions just because the venue actually requires, often times, requires me to, to teach it more as a meditation, which it also is, so I teach it primarily as a moving meditation.
Todd McLaughlin
Nice. Can you give me some insight into how you got started? And what your first introduction to Tai Chi was?
Sifu Rubia
Sure, sure. The first Tai Chi class I went to I literally went and walked out?
Todd McLaughlin
Have you felt weirded out by that first? Like, what was it like that? Sorry? What was it that that made you want to walk out like you were frustrated, or you thought it was weird or….
Sifu Rubia
All of that. It was a combination of a few things. And I remember the feeling very vividly. And by then I’d already had maybe a five year yoga practice. So I was familiar with mind body movement. But the Tai Chi just brought it to another level of being really, really present and uncomfortable. And I just, it was uncomfortable. And your ego gets in the way. And you know, like, there are layers to spiritual practice and your spiritual evolution. And that’s where I was at that moment in time. Struggling with with that part of myself, so yeah, I walked out of class. 15 years later, here we are, yes.
Todd McLaughlin
Can I ask you where that was?
Sifu Rubia
Where was it? I think it was here in California. So I’m not from here. I’m from Canada. And from the East Coast, and the I was visiting or traveling here in California. And the person I was with was actually a teacher. And he brought me to class. And that’s how that started. And then it took me a couple of years after that before taking another class. Just because the experience was…. I was just so weirded out that I never even considered going back. And then the second time, I can’t even say that it’s stuck, but it wasn’t as uncomfortable. And then the third time is when it stuck.
Todd McLaughlin
Nice. What do you think about the third time that made it stick? What was it that caused you to feel that way?
Sifu Rubia
So I don’t know. I think I was in a much different place. I was, you know, a little more seasoned. I transcended my ego a little bit more and I was a little more open and receptive to the practice. So I guess that’s what made the difference. And I see that in people who show up to class. You always have to meet as a teacher, you know, you have to meet people where they are. It has to come from within. The first time I was not forced into a situation. But it wasn’t something I was willingly going into, I think that’s part of the breakdown that happened. So by the third time it was a willingness from me. So I have to answer that question. That’s really the difference.
Todd McLaughlin
What do you think intrigued you about it when you had that switch to where you were going from being pulled into class versus let me seek it out? You already had a yoga practice? So it sounds like you had cultivated a passion for movement and mind body awareness? What was it about tai chi that caused you to want to try it again? Was it that initial kind of pushback that you felt from being uncomfortable in that really focused space? Or do you think there was something about watching the movement and watching people practice that you that got you intrigued you? Can you put your finger on that?
Sifu Rubia
I love how you put that…. it’s actually the latter. So to really observe people doing tai chi, just watching them it’s meditative. So I think yes, that was definitely the pull back. Yeah. In that space. Yeah, I love that you brought that up.
Todd McLaughlin
Oh, that’s cool. Well, it’s funny, because the first time I saw Tai Chi was on a video. And I remember I was with a group of people. And I had a massage teacher that was really into tai chi, and he put the video on and I think, because the reaction of the other people in the room, they started to giggle and laugh a little bit, kind of like, what is this? What is this person doing? Because the person was moving so slow. And so I feel like my first impression got formed by the reaction of the others around me. I was intrigued. I thought, well, that looks really interesting? But I remember that everyone else is wanting to make fun so it didn’t let me form my own first initial experience. Then my second chance getting to come across Tai Chi, was in Thailand. I was studying Thai massage and my Thai massage teacher would go and teach Tai Chi. Really early in the morning in Chiang Mai, Thailand. I remember going to a big soccer field. And more than 100 people would show up to practice. And I was blown away by the energy. I thought it looked so easy, but then to try to actually follow was another story. I remember people saying, Wow, that guy, he’s a real Tai Chi master. Like he really knows what he’s doing. And so I’d sit back and just kind of watch him and but I still didn’t have that eye yet for being able to detect who the master at the art was.
Can you? When you watch people practice? Is there something that you pick up on? When you watch their practice that gives you that indication? Obviously, you study it, and you teach it. So you have some understanding of these nuances. But can you clue me in a little bit as to what you look for?
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It is with great pleasure I can bring to you Judith Hanson Lasater, PhD, PT. Judith has taught yoga around the world since 1971. Judith offers numerous live events, digital courses, and has published ten books. Including Yoga Myths, and her most recent book, Teaching Yoga with Intention.
Judith Hanson Lasater is an American yoga teacher and writer in the San Francisco Bay Area, recognized as one of the leading teachers in the country. She helped to found The California Yoga Teachers Association, the Iyengar Yoga Institute in San Francisco, and Yoga Journal magazine.
During this conversation I have the chance to ask Judith questions about her new book, Teaching Yoga with Intention andthe importance of cultivating non violent communication as a yoga teacher.
Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. My name is Todd McLaughlin. I’m so happy you’re here. If you’re a first time listener, welcome. And for those of you that have been with me all along, your support means the world to me. I’m so pleased! I feel that my next guest here does not need an introduction. She is a famous yoga teacher, and I have utmost respect for her. Her name is Judith Hanson Lasater, and you can find her at www.judith.yoga.
Judith Hanson Lasater is a PhD. She’s a Physical Therapist. She’s taught yoga around the world since 1971. She offers numerous live events, digital courses, she’s published 10 books. And today the focus of our conversation is speaking about her most recent book called Teaching Yoga with Intention. So I want to express a huge thank you to Judith because she was so kind and accepting my invitation to be here on this podcast. And without any further ado, let’s get started.
Todd McLaughlin
I am so thrilled to have Dr. Judith Hanson Lasater here today. Judith is a PhD and Physical Therapist and a yoga teacher since 1971. Judith, how are you?
Judith Hanson Lasater
I’m doing well. Thank you very much. I hope the same for you.
Todd McLaughlin
I am really excited about this. I actually couldn’t sleep last night because I was so excited for this.
Judith Hanson Lasater
Oh, tell my children that! Or can you tell my grandchildren that? That they could be equally as excited when I call and talk to them.
Todd McLaughlin
Yeah, you can you can tell them that. I hope they’ll listen to you and appreciate that. Well, this is a great opportunity! I got a chance to read your most recent book called Teaching Yoga with Intention, The Essential Guide to Skillful Hands on Assist and Verbal Communication. I’m really excited to get a chance to talk to you about this today. Before we even go down that track though, I’m curious if you can just tell me a little bit about how and what you’re doing these days? Like what does your yoga practice and teaching like these days?
Judith Hanson Lasater
Well, one of the exciting things is beginning to teach live again. Traditionally yoga courses were taught one on one. And it was BKS Iyengar in the modern era who really began, initiated and created this whole idea of classes. But it’s still live, you can still feel the room. When you teach, you can still make eye contact with each person, if that’s appropriate. And so what I’m finding is this huge thirst, to be in community. To be in Sangha. To be with other people and just their presence. Practicing with you in the room is a nonverbal but very powerful support. And we all need that right now. So that’s what I’m liking. And that’s what’s alive for me. I’m very excited about this new book, because I wrote it during the pandemic. It flowed out of me. And that’s always a good sign for a writer.
Todd McLaughlin
I hear you! I think it’s an amazing book. I enjoyed reading it immensely. I found so many great points. I feel like you really honed in on some of the things that when I think, “how would I explain this to somebody?” And I have a loss of words. You did a great job of really laying out the foundation for healthy communication with us both verbally and if we use the power of touch in our in our teaching. So I think you did an amazing job.
Judith Hanson Lasater
Thank you. But before we go into the book, I really would like to follow, I’m all excited, of course to talk to you about, I’d like to follow my tradition of when I speak from the mat, or from the cushion, or in this place from my office chair, that I speak about what I think is, for us, all of us are listening, a really important part of our lives, which is our practice, I’d like to start with a moment of silence,
Todd McLaughlin
That’d be great.
Judith Hanson Lasater
So I’m going to ring my bell. And what I suggest you do is to sit and sit in front of your sitting bones, which brings your pelvis forward and then brings the pelvis under the spine to be like a pot to support this curvy, winding, fine, normal curve. So the brain in the head can float on the top of it. And that physical alignment will resonate through us energetically as well. And then my suggestion is that during that moment, if you find it interesting, useful and or pleasant, just imagine the very center of your brain geographically from the sides of your head from the top and the bottom and the front of the back, the deep center of the gray and just like a wave moving away from the shore, you stay rooted in that not ringing the bells and about a minute I’ll ring them again.
Todd McLaughlin
Wonderful.
Judith Hanson Lasater
All right, fire away with your questions.
Todd McLaughlin
First of all, I love the visual of wave pulling away from shore. That’s, that’s a really beautiful visual that works with that sensation of trying to put your attention right in the center of the brain. Is that something that has came to you? When a while practicing meditation? What made you think of that?
Judith Hanson Lasater
That’s a good question. It just popped into my consciousness one day, and I actually find that I can do that. With my eyes open. And I do it in conversation. I’ll be doing it a lot through our talk. It’s just a very, it takes you away from thinking. Did you notice that? Yeah. Because I have this word I’ve made up. You know, we all know the word mindfulness. But I really liked the word, body fullness. And when we can have, whenever we have the space that we can become aware of sensation, like the weight of our body on the chair, the floor. The sensations of the breath, is when we can cultivate our attention to be aware of the sensation of the moment. We step out of thought, because it’s we stepped from that space into into the present, into the present moment because sensation only occurs in the present moment. You can remember that yesterday you stubbed your toe and it hurt, but you can’t recreate that sensation in the present. So sensation lives in the moment. And when we put our awareness on the body, bodily sensation, we must then not be dancing with thought.
So here’s another technique that arose in me. And it was this idea of the tongue. So let’s try this for a second. Go back to the center of your brain.
And release your tongue from its roots, and let it lie flat in the mouth. Now, when I do that, that deepens the silence for me. Did you find that?
Todd McLaughlin
Yeah, to bring the attention to it or to even just put it right into the mouth, but then try to actually get my tongue to relax? That’s a good one.
Judith Hanson Lasater
No, no, don’t try.
Todd McLaughlin
Don’t try?
Judith Hanson Lasater
Invite. Invite. So here’s what I’ve reasoned out about that is the tongue is not just an organ of digestion, a muscle. It’s also an organ of speech. And so it’s neurologically connected to the speech centers. So we have parts of our brain that are very connected with speech and writing. And thinking because we think in words, have you ever seen a little kid? Or maybe you did this yourself? I remember doing it. When I was learning to write. Sometimes my tongue would be outside my mouth or writing the letter? Yeah, yeah. Because it’s the tongue, you have motor skills. Yeah, babies, infants have to learn how to swallow. They have to learn to swallow. Meaning that with the tongue, and how they nurse and all of that. So I think that when we relax the tongue, and there is some evidence to this, we affect the neural pathways to the brain. And so when I combined, for me, the center of the brain, release the top. Let the heart, expand to its truth. Then descend to the pelvis and feel the pulse of life of being in the pelvis. Thank you, we are then radically present in the being of the body, which lives in the moment. Did you find anything of that in this moment?
Todd McLaughlin
I did! Two things I love right off the bat is the language you used around, don’t try….. instead invite. That’s amazing. That’s a big shift. And then I started thinking, Well, we really don’t have anything to talk about now. Because you got to the heart of it all already.
Judith Hanson Lasater
All will be well.
Todd McLaughlin
You got to the heart of the matter right off the bat.
Judith Hanson Lasater
Can I tell you a story about that?
Todd McLaughlin
Yes, please.
Judith Hanson Lasater
So my second time that I went to Russia, I think I went the first time in ’89. When the wall was coming down, and then again in ’91. And the first time I went, there were just a couple of, two or three Americans there. But then there were a larger group that went and we were in a big cafeteria in one of the big hotels, where we were all staying and then a group of Russian yoga teachers came walking towards us. They came in, you know, and I because I’d been there before. Got up, everyone was like, what did we do what we do? And so I got up and walked towards them. And pretty soon other people started coming and we started introducing ourselves and I remember distinctly talking to a woman and I was doing this southern girl, chatty, chatty. Your city is beautiful, I got it that you know, whatever. And she reached over and she grabbed me by the upper arm. And she leaned into me and she said, No, let us talk a real thing. I love that. That’s what you, that’s what you and I are about I think right now.
Todd McLaughlin
Yeah. Let’s get right to the to the heart of it. That’s amazing. Judith. Well, in your book, you mentioned the importance of language. And you mapped it into like three different stages. Can you please define and explain the three levels or stages of learning about language and the teaching of yoga?
Judith Hanson Lasater
Would you prompt me on that, please?
Todd McLaughlin
I will. Because the first one is how you talked about how first as a yoga teacher, we transfer info “about the pose.” Like the first level of conversation is kind of like, okay, Triangle Pose. And let me just convey some words to help you get from point A to point B.
Judith Hanson Lasater
Yeah, it’s just information. Yeah, it’s like, it’s technique, which is very important, because technique affects energy and organs and state of mind, the nervous system, and we’re very complex. In fact, you know, years ago, people used to say, body, and mind and body were completely separate. That was the western view. And then it started hyphenating, that term. MInd-body. Interesting. You know, and then there was a period, you’d see it written as one word, I see it a lot. Now mindbody is one word. So I’ve made up a word, which is mody. Mody. Because the body and the mind on are so one.
Todd McLaughlin
Yeah, that’s a great word.
Judith Hanson Lasater
Mody. So yeah, I mean, we should get it, we should get it in the dictionary, another word I made up, it’s not just multi-tasking, it is hyper-tasking. So you know, if there, so I want uni-tasking to be in the dictionary. And we, this spiritual practice asked the question, “Can we do one thing at a time?” And usually, the answer is no way Jose. So, yes, the first part of communication is, of course nonverbal. But if we get past that, we’re giving them information. Because if someone comes in and says, teach me how to do yoga, and we just say, do Triangle Pose, we need to tell them turn the left foot in the right foot out, stretch the arm, etc. But that’s not our most important job. So number two?
Todd McLaughlin
The beginning of the personalization of instructions.
Judith Hanson Lasater
Yeah, so a leader in yoga is someone who leads the class. I’ve even seen people turn their back and just do their practice, and people follow them. Which surprises me, so you’re leading. But then teaching begins When you can say to this person, please put your feet wider apart into this next person, would you bring them closer together, when there’s an individuation, of how we can support each pupil expressing the beauty of their Trikonasana in this moment. In ways that keep them safe, and open their heart and mind the same time and bring them into their body into their own self. So that’s a deeper, that’s a real teacher. The teacher sees both the difference and the absolute unity among all people, and to help them help the students. What’s the third one?
Todd McLaughlin
I think you’re correct! You answered that really well, thank you. That when the teacher is able to communicate in such a way that their words evoke, or conjure the pose from the student, or how the student can discover the pose already exists within them. And I love how you wrote as an ancient archetype. That’s so cool. Like the thought of…..
Judith Hanson Lasater
A pyramid. Which is a three dimensional triangle. Yeah, so that presupposes the understanding that we could never teach anybody anything. We can only create an environment in which people choose to learn.
So the question is, how are we going to create that environment with our language? So I make intentional choices. I don’t say good or bad, right or wrong. Oh, I might say to a student, I really liked the way your knee is in that pose, or I’m concerned about placement of your knee, would you try this and see what you think how it feels to you. So because if I come, you know, stomping in the class, and say, do this, do this, do this. And then I learned something and I wanted to change my mind, I’ve painted myself in a corner. So what I want to teach in that part of the of the pose is twofold. The second stage, is like I want to teach them technique in a way that underscores trusting that they trust themselves. First, I want to use my words in a class, to create an environment in which people are trusting themselves and at the same time they’re willing to try something new. And I’m not there to impose the pose to fit them in a cookie cutter. So I like to say to my students, I don’t want to teach you rules, I want to teach you principles. Because that’s a bigger, bigger idea. There are anatomical principles about how the pelvis can move over the femoral heads, in Trikonasana that will relieve the lower back and create a sense of ease and dynamism at the same time. You know that in Patanjali’s yoga sutra, chapter two verse 46, Sthira Sukham Asanam. It’s a definition of Asana. So abiding in ease is asana. So an Asana is that which we can be in which we can be still, and at ease. And it’s really ironic, we think of as movements that are difficult.
Todd McLaughlin
Good point!
Judith Hanson Lasater
How can I create an environment in which people find their Trikonasana? And often it’s not airy fairy? I mean, there are boundaries, there are alignment principle. You could be, you know, hyperextending your knee or whatever, that guidance. But the asana, Todd, the asana isn’t the yoga. It’s the residue, that the asana leaves in the nervous system that is the yoga. Because Yoga is not just, you know, to paint with a broad brush, Asana, Pranayama, meditation. Those point to the potential of presence, which is the state of yoga. So we confuse them. People say I am going to do yoga, like, what? When are we all going to say I’m going to go in my own? Right? And bring that into the world. And bring that. That state of presence. Compassion.
Todd McLaughlin
Great point, Judith. Was there a point in your transformation through your yoga journey where maybe you were practicing a yoga pose and thinking about that yoga sutra, where it’s mentioning that the asana should be stable and comfortable. And thinking, “how in the world could this be comfortable?” I’m in this really like, uncomfortable position right now. And has that informed your teaching and evolution of your practice over the years?
Judith Hanson Lasater
Yes, but it wasn’t a thought. It was an experience, which I’m happy to share with you. So I was taking a class from another teacher. And I was doing what it at that time, for me was my favorite pose, which was Paschimottanasana, which is just sitting on the floor, leg straight and bending forward. Which I think is the hardest forward bend because there’s nowhere to hide. Like, if you’ve bend one knee, if you’ve bend one day like Janusirsana, you can cheat all over the place. But you cannot cheat in Paschimottanasana. It’s you and your hamstrings baby that it is no getting away from it. And it’s also true I think in Urdhva Dhanurasana, and it’s the most difficult backbend. Because when you’re doing one side, Raja Kapotasana, or you’re doing one side of another posture, there is a way to work off to the one side of something in there. Alright, so that was my favorite pose. And I was I like to say I had my hamstrings surgically removed at birth. I just felt like for a long time, and I’m, you know, just sort of naturally a little loose. And so it’s just flat down, you know, forehead on the shins. I mean, I felt a little bit of stretch. But not much, you know, I was pretty comfortable there. And my mind was spinning like what are we going to how long are we gonna be here? What’s happening with that other person doing what I’m going to have for lunch after class, you know, the normal, useless brain chatter. And then there was experience and I want to treat this story with humility, gratitude, and wonder. And I had the sense that something just kind of flew out of me. And I still felt the stretch but I wasn’t doing anything. And I just stayed there. It wasn’t like I even stayed. It was like, there was no deep reason to move. There was no discomfort, there was no agitation. I just stayed there. And finally the teacher said, come up, and I didn’t come up. Because I didn’t know what that meant. Literally, it was so bizarre. He said, come up, and I’m like, what does that mean? Because he was, it would be as if I were saying to you stop jumping up and down. Yeah. And you know what? I’m not jumping. Yeah. So he said, stop doing the pose. And I’m like, what is he talking about? And then this little ego stuck it’s head out behind the tree and my consciousness and said, Wow, that was cool. I started, you know, then it shifted again. But I thought to myself afterwards, well, I’d finally practiced one pose. It was my first pose, you know, it was years into my practice, but…. So, does that answer your question does?
Todd McLaughlin
Yes. Perfectly. Since I’ve read your book, I’ve been extra thoughtful about my speech and my touch, in a good way. In a really good way. Like, maybe I was just on autopilot for a little bit. I kind of forgot how important it is. And you made mention, in your book, this is quoting you “we speak to manipulate the world around us” end quote. Can you explain that? It makes sense to me. It makes sense to me, but love it. I thought it was actually kind of profound when I heard that. We speak to manipulate the world around us. I might think, “I’m not trying to manipulate the world.” I’m just getting through the world here. So I love that sentence.
Judith Hanson Lasater
Okay. So first, let’s look at the word manipulate, because that has a negative connotation. But if we’re truthful, Todd, you are manipulating the world around you all day long. You go for a run, you’re manipulating your consciousness, right? Go for a run, you smoke a funny cigarette, you smoke a real cigarette. Not that you do these things. You have coffee, you want your caffeine which manipulates your nervous system. You do your Pranayama or your yoga. You stand on your head, all this manipulate your nervous system. You go to sleep and that manipulates your nervous system. We’re always seeking homeostasis. In fact, you are choosing, you know, when you eat, you feel different. You manipulate your nervous system. That’s what human beings do. And there are two kinds of manipulation. There’s the unconscious one and the conscious one. And so to me, that’s what yoga is about is paying attention to how doing Savasana. Savasana manipulates your nervous. Does it not?
Todd McLaughlin
It does.
Judith Hanson Lasater
Okay, so that’s a conscious manipulation. So the question is not, should I not manipulate, it’s am I doing it consciously, to live my highest values. And that’s what yoga makes us aware of. And this speech that I’ve that I’ve studied this technique of nonviolent communication has radically changed my relationship, in my interaction with my children as they were growing up, and in intimate relationships and in teaching.
And the best way we can do that. Well, let me let me let me back up a second.
Every time I go to teach, whether it’s online or in person. The first thing I do is have the one minute. And during that one minute I connect with myself. This is the first rule of teaching. When I sit there in front of you today or in class. The first thing I do is I ask myself this question. What is alive in me right now? Am I anxious? Am I happy? Am I sleepy? Am I irritated by the discussion I just had with someone? It doesn’t really matter what is arising in me but when I get connected with that. Oh right now I’m tired or right now I’m excited. Right now I’m worried about one of my children. It was always one of the three was at the top of the worry list, you know, over the years. Whatever, whatever is arising in me when I notice it. That when I bring it into the light. It connects me with the present moment. And I go, Ah, yes, I’m feeling excited. Ah, I don’t judge it. I don’t try to make it different. I don’t try to fix it. I just notice it. Because, and name it to myself. Right now I’m sad. Because my uncle died. I’m just sad right now. Okay. That’s what’s alive in me, then I’m firmly present. Radically present I call it because we’re very rarely there. So the next thing I want to do is I want to be able to see you. And I can’t see you and or connect with you if I’m not connected with myself. So when I see you, and it’s really tricky, because I’ve taught for 51 years. I have students who’ve been with me for 45 years.
Todd McLaughlin
Wow, that is amazing!
Judith Hanson Lasater
You know everything about them. You know them before they met their husband, before they got married, when they got divorced, and they had these kids, and they had this surgery, then this. And so it blurs in a way, your objectivity. So when I go to teach somewhere where I don’t know, most of the people, I sometimes feel that my best teaching. Because I don’t see my friend. I see a human being, you know what I’m saying? You may know what I am saying. So that. Yeah, so the second part of this is I want to see the person standing in front of me. They may have been there for many weeks, or never again, but can I be present with that person in this moment?
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